On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Martin Jay
wrote:

Well, well, well. Despite all it's community based fully charm,
giffgaff is just another con.

A few days ago I noticed my giffgaff balance had unexpectedly dropped
by GBP5, so I sent an email requesting a refund.

Surprise, surprise it transpires that giffgaff have charged me for an
unrequested premium rate text message that was sent from a third
party. I had hoped the premium rate text message business had put its
house in order, but it appears not. And, sadly, it also appears that
mobile networks and their resellers are happy to cuddle up in bed with
premium rate text message thieves.

You can follow the thread in con-con giffgaff's forums at
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/giffgaff-con-con/td-p/6538/highlight/false.

The general consensus of those who have posted seems to be similar to
con-con giffgaff's own response: tough luck.

An example is:

----- Begin Quote -----

giffgaff = con-con

17-March-2010 09:21

Why don't people understand how to take responsibility for their own
issues?

As mentioned previously: GG have NO affiliation with the sender of the
text. OK, so I agree that it wasn't your fault that the text was sent
- but it wasn't GG's either, so why should they stump up?

I may not have been your fault - but your number is your
responsibility.

How can it possibly be a con? Are you even reading what you type
before hitting the "send" button?

You either signed up for something by mistake, somebody hates you and
gave this company your number, or they are simply spamming you.

None of the above implicate GG, or indicate that they owe you money.

You've been had. Put it down to experience and move on - just stop
slandering a company because they won't clean up after you.

----- End Quote -----
--
Martin Jay
Back the Ban: http://www.backtheban.com/
League Against Cruel Sports: http://www.league.org.uk/

"Martin Jay" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:42:47 -0700 (PDT), andy
wrote:

Stop accusing giffgaff of complicity in theft...

But that's exactly what it is.

...when neither they nor any other network have no way at all of
directly knowing whether you actually subscribed or not

That's what the mobile networks and their resellers have brainwashed
customers into believing. However, the contract exists between
con-con giffgaff and myself. It is their responsibility to ensure
that all charges are accurate and to investigate any that are
disputed.

Complain to the service provider, which you can find by looking up the
number, and get a refund from them

I have complained. I have complained to the company that charged me:
con-con giffgaff. It's not up to me go running around begging for a
refund from a third party I have no relationship with.

I tried it once. They were expert in fobbing me off with lies, swearing at
me, threatening me and accusing *me* of harassment.

--
Martin Jay
Back the Ban: http://www.backtheban.com/
League Against Cruel Sports: http://www.league.org.uk/

On 17 Mar, 09:50, Martin Jay wrote:


You can follow the thread in con-con giffgaff's forums at
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/gif....

The general consensus of those who have posted seems to be similar to
con-con giffgaff's own response: tough luck.


Actually, the general consensus is that you should complain to the
number provider company, and report this the to regulator
Phonepayplus, which has imposed sanctions on cases in the past

Your refusal (so far) to do so, and your general abuse towards the
suggestion, is starting to look rather less reasonable than the tone
of the vast majority of replies you've had

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Martin Jay
wrote:

Well, well, well. Despite all it's community based fully charm,
giffgaff is just another con.

A few days ago I noticed my giffgaff balance had unexpectedly dropped
by GBP5, so I sent an email requesting a refund.

Surprise, surprise it transpires that giffgaff have charged me for an
unrequested premium rate text message that was sent from a third
party. I had hoped the premium rate text message business had put its
house in order, but it appears not. And, sadly, it also appears that
mobile networks and their resellers are happy to cuddle up in bed with
premium rate text message thieves.

The mystery deepens. I responded to con-con giffgaff with this:

"I have not subscribed to any premium rate text services. If you
believe otherwise, I'd be grateful if you would let me know when and
how I did so."

And I have received this response:

----- Begin Quote -----

As I previously stated this is a premium text service that had to be
signed up to from yourself or someone who had access to your details
could have actually requested this I'm afraid. Only after a full
investigation did I provide you with all the correct information and
how to stop these texts from using up your credit again in the future
but unfortunately giffgaff is not responsible for this charge and are
in no way connected to the text service that is charging you.

As I understand it on the forum thread you created headed "giffgaff =
con-con" a few members have tried to help you in the right direction
towards getting refunded from the actual premium text service provider
and I'm sorry to inform you but this is the only way you will be
refunded for this credit loss as how your SIM is used is completely
your own responsibility.

----- End Quote -----

Note that they dodged the point I raised about letting me know "when
and how" I subscribed to the premium rate text service.
--
Martin Jay
Back the Ban: http://www.backtheban.com/
League Against Cruel Sports: http://www.league.org.uk/

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:11:48 -0700 (PDT), andy
wrote:

Actually, the general consensus is that you should complain to the
number provider company, and report this the to regulator
Phonepayplus, which has imposed sanctions on cases in the past

A con-con giffgaff representative responded with this:

"As discussed in our Emails this is a premium text service that had to
be signed up to from your SIM and only yourself or someone who had
access to your SIM could have actually requested this I'm afraid."

Therefore, clearly this isn't a case of a third party subscribing me
to a premium rate SMS service, and is solely a matter between myself
and con-con giffgaff because only they and myself have access to my
SIM.

Or do you disagree with con-con giffgaff that the premium rate SMS
service "had to be signed up to from [my] SIM?"
--
Martin Jay
Back the Ban: http://www.backtheban.com/
League Against Cruel Sports: http://www.league.org.uk/

On 17 Mar, 13:29, Martin Jay wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:11:48 -0700 (PDT), andy

wrote:
Actually, the general consensus is that you should complain to the
number provider company, and report this the to regulator
Phonepayplus, which has imposed sanctions on cases in the past

A con-con giffgaff representative responded with this:

"As discussed in our Emails this is a premium text service that had to
be signed up to from your SIM and only yourself or someone who had
access to your SIM could have actually requested this I'm afraid."

Therefore, clearly this isn't a case of a third party subscribing me
to a premium rate SMS service, and is solely a matter between myself
and con-con giffgaff because only they and myself have access to my
SIM.



Or do you disagree with con-con giffgaff that the premium rate SMS
service "had to be signed up to from [my] SIM?"
--

I disagree withthe whole tenor of the ludicrous way you are conducting
this

Forum members at giffgaff have tried to help you, with suggestions
about how to contact the providers involved, and about how to refer a
complaint to Phonepayplus

A giffgaff staff member has publicly offered to help you with
information that you can submit to the provider with your refund case

All through this, you have persistently shot down all offers of help,
and are now starting to construct contorted rhetorical arguments that
are verging on nonsense or starting to diverge from the facts

You say you aren't obliged to contact Phonepayplus.

That's true, but there is evidence to show that some services on that
number provider have had compliance issues.

But your self-absorbed whining has now reached such a pitch that you
seem indifferent to whether any other customers might be affected by
these issues, or any idea that you could help the regulator with any
investigation needed.

I'd say your behaviour on the giffgaff forum has turned into trolling
for the sake of it, when you've spent (as I said) at least ten times
the effort posting about this than making 2 or 3 simple phone calls,
one of which (Phonepayplus) is actually free

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:14:31 +0000, Martin Jay
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Martin Jay
wrote:

Well, well, well. Despite all it's community based fully charm,
giffgaff is just another con.

A few days ago I noticed my giffgaff balance had unexpectedly dropped
by GBP5, so I sent an email requesting a refund.

Surprise, surprise it transpires that giffgaff have charged me for an
unrequested premium rate text message that was sent from a third
party. I had hoped the premium rate text message business had put its
house in order, but it appears not. And, sadly, it also appears that
mobile networks and their resellers are happy to cuddle up in bed with
premium rate text message thieves.

The mystery deepens.

And now con-con giffgaff have locked the thread I started on their
forum. It's been marked as "Too Hot."

It's he
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/giffgaff-con-con/td-p/6538.

I wonder if they'll delete it.
--
Martin Jay
Back the Ban: http://www.backtheban.com/
League Against Cruel Sports: http://www.league.org.uk/

On 17 Mar, 14:21, Martin Jay wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:14:31 +0000, Martin Jay





wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Martin Jay
wrote:
Well, well, well. *Despite all it's community based fully charm,
giffgaff is just another con.

A few days ago I noticed my giffgaff balance had unexpectedly dropped
by GBP5, so I sent an email requesting a refund.

Surprise, surprise it transpires that giffgaff have charged me for an
unrequested premium rate text message that was sent from a third
party. *I had hoped the premium rate text message business had put its
house in order, but it appears not. *And, sadly, it also appears that
mobile networks and their resellers are happy to cuddle up in bed with
premium rate text message thieves.
The mystery deepens.

And now con-con giffgaff have locked the thread I started on their
forum. *It's been marked as "Too Hot."

It's he
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/gif....

I wonder if they'll delete it.
--

It's been locked because it isn't going anywhere and has become
repetitive, partly due to your adamant refusal of all offers of help

When it reaches the point where someone asks you if you even read the
middle sentence in a post consisting of 3 sentences, and your perverse
reply saysyou mean this one, but quoting and responding to a
different one, it's become obvious that you are being obtuse for the
sake of it

giffgaff staff have publicly offered to help you with this

Forum members have several times given advice on how to deal wih this,
including contact details for Phonepayplus and the number provider

Any public statement you make to the contrary, such as your paranoid
whine that nobody is interested in helping with the issue, is
blatantly untrue

On 17 Mar, 14:36, andy wrote:
On 17 Mar, 14:21, Martin Jay wrote:





On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:14:31 +0000, Martin Jay

wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Martin Jay
wrote:
Well, well, well. *Despite all it's community based fully charm,
giffgaff is just another con.

A few days ago I noticed my giffgaff balance had unexpectedly dropped
by GBP5, so I sent an email requesting a refund.

Surprise, surprise it transpires that giffgaff have charged me for an
unrequested premium rate text message that was sent from a third
party. *I had hoped the premium rate text message business had put its
house in order, but it appears not. *And, sadly, it also appears that
mobile networks and their resellers are happy to cuddle up in bed with
premium rate text message thieves.
The mystery deepens.

And now con-con giffgaff have locked the thread I started on their
forum. *It's been marked as "Too Hot."

It's he
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/gif.....

I wonder if they'll delete it.
--

It's been locked because it isn't going anywhere and has become
repetitive, partly due to your adamant refusal of all offers of help

When it reaches the point where someone asks you if you even read the
middle sentence in a post consisting of 3 sentences, and your perverse
reply saysyou mean this one, but quoting and responding *to a
different one, it's become obvious that you are being obtuse for the
sake of it

giffgaff staff have publicly offered to help you with this

.... and are still doing so

from the last public response of a staff member, which says that more
details have been sent in private, it appears that Martin Jay's number
has been subscribed to a reseller of cheap international calls using a
callthrough service, a service which can be signed up for by entering
one's number in a web form

so it doesn't look like it's about to turn into abuse with loads of
unsolicited ringtones or quiz questions or prize draws

perhaps someone else intended to subscribe, but made a mistake about
their own number

this ought to be resolvable with a rather lower of hysteria

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:21:07 +0000, Martin Jay wrote in


And now con-con giffgaff have locked the thread I started on their
forum. It's been marked as "Too Hot."

It's he
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/giffgaff-con-con/td-p/6538.

I wonder if they'll delete it.

The short code in question belongs to this company - PlanetCalling.com

http://www.planetcalling.com/terms.html