I'm wondering about buying a mobile principally for use as a VOIP client
over wifi. It's to be bought and used in Sudan, where there's not much
selection of non-mobile VOIP phones (and offers like Three Skype don't
exist).

Due to various double NAT headaches (see my thread on uk.telecom.voip) it
looks like Skype or IAX are the most robust protocols, but I'd like to keep
my options open to use SIP too.

Skype only works on Nokias, with the Windows Mobile client being deprecated.
I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I'm wary
about deprecated software.

IAX is only supported by Zoiper Mobile Beta on Windows Mobile. However I
prefer Skype as I don't need to run my own IAX server (but I can run a
Skype-to-SIP gateway later if I want).

Nokia have a SIP client on various of their S40/S60 phones, and third-party
clients can be loaded on other of their phones.


I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I need this
as bomb-proof as possible. For this reason I'm wary about deprecated or
beta software. I'd also like as many SIP options I can tweak as possible
(for example, to try to work around my NAT trouble), because I can't take it
back once I've bought it.

I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
Skype and SIP.

So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
watch for?

Thanks
Theo

In article ,
Theo Markettos wrote:

I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
Skype and SIP.

So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
watch for?

The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
as I live in a 2G only area (O2)

OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....

So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

As for battery life - when using Wi-Fi or 3G it's short - but I'm getting
over 2 days on my N900 using it as a phone with Wi-Fi and data turned off
(actually hard to keep it off!), but seems to give me all days use with
Wi-Fi on, but I'm not doing too much on it other than checking twitter,
making a few calls and playing music...

No worse than an iPhone, I reckon.

Gordon

On 21/04/10 20:18, Gordon Henderson wrote:

So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

The advantage to this is that if you found IAX is blocked in Sudan, you
could tunnel it in OpenVPN from an N900.

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
21:19:22 up 12 days, 10:36, 2 users, load average: 0.18, 0.77, 0.47
It is better to have been wasted and then sober
than to never have been wasted at all

In uk.telecom.voip Gordon Henderson wrote:
The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
as I live in a 2G only area (O2)

OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....

So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

I've come up with another idea... Fring. It even works on my geriatric N70
(client dated 2007). I put in the Mobile Broadband SIM and Skype and SIP
work acceptably (a little voice breakup, but OK).

Integration with the phone is good. This approach also allows use away from
the wifi (by buying a daily Zain internet pass for 1 SDG - about 30p).

Of course this is only on single NAT. So the question is does Fring work on
double NAT? It appears to use its own protocol to the Fring servers which
then turn it into Skype/SIP/etc (a bit like Opera Mini). But I can't work
out how it behaves when behind double NAT (there's no PC client). Or indeed
their business model (how they'll break things in future). And they have
woeful security (you can't change your password. Ever).

Theo

On 21 Apr, 22:31, Theo Markettos
wrote:
In uk.telecom.voip Gordon Henderson wrote:

The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
as I live in a 2G only area (O2)

OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....

So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

I've come up with another idea... Fring. *It even works on my geriatric N70
(client dated 2007). *I put in the Mobile Broadband SIM and Skype and SIP
work acceptably (a little voice breakup, but OK).

Integration with the phone is good. *This approach also allows use away from
the wifi (by buying a daily Zain internet pass for 1 SDG - about 30p).

Of course this is only on single NAT. *So the question is does Fring work on
double NAT? *It appears to use its own protocol to the Fring servers which
then turn it into Skype/SIP/etc (a bit like Opera Mini). *But I can't work
out how it behaves when behind double NAT (there's no PC client). *Or indeed
their business model (how they'll break things in future). *And they have
woeful security (you can't change your password. *Ever).

Theo

I can't tell you anything about NAT, still mysterious to me.

As well as Fring, look at Nimbuzz. Thus on phones with their own SIP
client you can give yourself 3 choices.

Also, you can occasionally find secondhand wi-fi only phones for
pretty modest prices

On 21 Apr 2010 18:46:32 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
wrote:


I'm wondering about buying a mobile principally for use as a VOIP client
over wifi. It's to be bought and used in Sudan, where there's not much
selection of non-mobile VOIP phones (and offers like Three Skype don't
exist).

You need fairly uncongested Internet access in the country to get any
of Voip to work well
- do you have any info on what you can expect for Internet thruput to
the countries your VoIP will need to get to?

Due to various double NAT headaches (see my thread on uk.telecom.voip) it
looks like Skype or IAX are the most robust protocols, but I'd like to keep
my options open to use SIP too.

Skype only works on Nokias, with the Windows Mobile client being deprecated.
I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I'm wary
about deprecated software.

IAX is only supported by Zoiper Mobile Beta on Windows Mobile. However I
prefer Skype as I don't need to run my own IAX server (but I can run a
Skype-to-SIP gateway later if I want).

Nokia have a SIP client on various of their S40/S60 phones, and third-party
clients can be loaded on other of their phones.


I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I need this
as bomb-proof as possible. For this reason I'm wary about deprecated or
beta software. I'd also like as many SIP options I can tweak as possible
(for example, to try to work around my NAT trouble), because I can't take it
back once I've bought it.

I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
Skype and SIP.

So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
watch for?

Thanks
Theo
Stephen
--
Regards

- replace xyz with ntl

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
...

SNIP

Nokia have a SIP client on various of their S40/S60 phones, and
third-party
clients can be loaded on other of their phones.

This does work, but is fiddly to set up, but once done it works very well
and reliably.

The SIP works fine over wi-fi, with good call quality, quick set up etc.

There is a slight increase in battery drain.

Unexpectedly once set up over wi-fi it also works over 3G outbound and less
reliably inbound (if you are mobile), however the call quality is poor and
most service providers will cut you off if they notice.



I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I need this
as bomb-proof as possible. For this reason I'm wary about deprecated or
beta software. I'd also like as many SIP options I can tweak as possible
(for example, to try to work around my NAT trouble), because I can't take
it
back once I've bought it.

I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
Skype and SIP.

So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later
version?
Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
watch for?

Thanks
Theo

In uk.telecom.mobile andy wrote:
As well as Fring, look at Nimbuzz. Thus on phones with their own SIP
client you can give yourself 3 choices.

Thanks, I'll have a look. Currently the N70 is driving me up the wall
refusing to connect to the network, not giving me traffic, or automatically
connecting to the wrong APN. I'm not sure if this is the result of Fring
(which starts automatically), but Fring has frozen the phone solid (to the
extent of taking out the battery a few times). Which is disappointing as it
worked nicely the first time I installed it.

Also, you can occasionally find secondhand wi-fi only phones for
pretty modest prices

Unfortunately, not in Africa you don't. Think battered dusty ancient phones
in the market for about the new price (even when you haggle)

Theo

In uk.telecom.mobile Stephen wrote:
You need fairly uncongested Internet access in the country to get any
of Voip to work well
- do you have any info on what you can expect for Internet thruput to
the countries your VoIP will need to get to?

A quick test on speedtest.net suggests somewhere between 0.3-1Mbit/s down
and 0.3Mbit/s up (I think that's because there's no HSUPA).

Fring (less than 2KB/s each up and down) works OK - with a little breakup.
I think once a stream is running it's OK, but getting connections up is slow
(DNS is poor, for example, and HTTP goes through a China-style firewall).
Skype seems to be OK.

Theo

In uk.telecom.voip R. Mark Clayton wrote:
This does work, but is fiddly to set up, but once done it works very well
and reliably.

The SIP works fine over wi-fi, with good call quality, quick set up etc.

Well, that rather depends on what's at the other end of the wifi. I assume
you mean ADSL or cable? Here it's a router with a builtin 3G dongle, so
it's pretty much the same whether it's over wifi or the phone does the 3G.

There is a slight increase in battery drain.

That's useful to know... I did wonder if such apps ate batteries for
breakfast. If you leave such an app on all the time, how much battery life
do you get?

Unexpectedly once set up over wi-fi it also works over 3G outbound and less
reliably inbound (if you are mobile), however the call quality is poor and
most service providers will cut you off if they notice.

What do you mean that it's less reliable inbound? That registration fails
because it doesn't send keepalive packets?

Theo