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112 vs 999



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th 10, 11:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Robert Coates
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Posts: 9
Default 112 vs 999

I was recently told by someone connected with the emergency services
that you should always dial 112 from a mobile rather than 999. The
reason given was that with 112 the operator will know your location
within a matter of metres whereas with 999 they only have a rough idea
where you are calling from.

My gut feeling on hearing this was that it's nonsense.

I, from personal experience about 10 years ago, know they have a rough
idea where you are from which mast you are using. Bitter experience
actually as I was near a county boundary and the operator would no way
connect me to the correct force, insisting on the neighbouring one,
who then had to ring up the correct one and relay a message!

I've done much Googling on this subject but can't find any up to date
info on this.
"enhanced location information" seems to have been introduced about
2004 giving more accurate location info, based on triangulation I
think. But why would this work on 112 and not on 999.

Anyone know for a fact whether what I've been told is truth or
garbage?

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  #2  
Old May 19th 10, 03:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Whiskers
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Posts: 281
Default 112 vs 999

On 2010-05-19, Robert Coates wrote:
I was recently told by someone connected with the emergency services
that you should always dial 112 from a mobile rather than 999. The
reason given was that with 112 the operator will know your location
within a matter of metres whereas with 999 they only have a rough idea
where you are calling from.

My gut feeling on hearing this was that it's nonsense.


[...]

Anyone know for a fact whether what I've been told is truth or
garbage?


As far as I can tell, 112 and 999 are effectively the same. Whereas the
emergency operator has a frequently updated database matching land-line
numbers to their physical addresses, that's obviously pointless for mobile
numbers.

While it is possible to identify the 'cell' used to make a mobile call,
that is not very accurate (a radius of several yards in the middle of a
city, but possibly a few miles out in the sticks). I can't see how it
makes a difference whether you dial 999 or 112. A mobile caller should
tell the operator as accurately as possible where the emergency is.

Some 'smartphones' are now capable of identifying their own location to a
certain extent, the best probably using an integrated GPS receiver and
mapping application. I don't know if the emergency operator has any way
of tapping into that information as yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if
the emergency services are investigating the possibilites. ("Geolocation"
seems to be the buzzword associated with that sort of thing).

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=3218951
April 3, 2010
Geolocation, your privacy & the future of social networking
Exploring the world of location-aware phone apps
Daniel Ionescu, PC World

http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/crimefacts/999
Home - Home, Law & Money - Law - Crime Facts - 999 and 112

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/ind_guidelines/emer1002.htm
An overview of the fixed telephone emergency services (999/112)
9 October 2002

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2004/01/nr1_20040115
15|01|04 Enhanced 999 facility for mobile phones

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-205988/Mobile-999-calls-traced.html
Mobile 999 calls to be traced

http://kn.theiet.org/magazine/rateit/communications/e999-connexon.cfm
The Institution of Engineering and Technology
999 – where’s your emergency?
Published on 10 March 2010
By Stephen Killen

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
  #3  
Old May 19th 10, 05:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Zaz
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Posts: 12
Default 112 vs 999

On Wed, 19 May 2010 04:43:05 -0700, Robert Coates
wrote:
Anyone know for a fact whether what I've been told is truth or garbage?


Garbage. The reason for 112's existence is so that all EU member states
have a universal emergency number. It makes no sense at all to have two
emergency numbers work in different ways.

  #4  
Old May 19th 10, 05:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Zaz
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Posts: 12
Default 112 vs 999

On Wed, 19 May 2010 16:41:03 +0100, Whiskers
wrote:
Some 'smartphones' are now capable of identifying their own location to
a certain extent, the best probably using an integrated GPS receiver and
mapping application. I don't know if the emergency operator has any way
of tapping into that information as yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if
the emergency services are investigating the possibilites.


There was a story about someone in America that accidentally called 911
from a mobile phone that he had stolen. He was selling drugs and the
operator could hear the conversation and was able to give the police the
caller's exact location.

It didn't say how this was done but I imagine it must be through GPS. I
can't imagine mobile manufacturers didn't consider the possibility of
allowing GPS coordinates to be sent when an emergency call is made.
Unless there were privacy concerns I can't think why this wouldn't have
been implemented.

  #5  
Old May 19th 10, 06:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Theo Markettos
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Posts: 730
Default 112 vs 999

Zaz wrote:
Garbage. The reason for 112's existence is so that all EU member states
have a universal emergency number. It makes no sense at all to have two
emergency numbers work in different ways.


One difference is that many phones will allow you to dial 112 with the
keypad locked, while other emergency numbers require the keypad to be
unlocked.

(I have no idea if there is country-specific firmware to also allow national
numbers)

Theo
  #6  
Old May 19th 10, 06:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Paulg0
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Posts: 65
Default 112 vs 999



"Zaz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 May 2010 04:43:05 -0700, Robert Coates
wrote:
Anyone know for a fact whether what I've been told is truth or garbage?


Garbage. The reason for 112's existence is so that all EU member states
have a universal emergency number. It makes no sense at all to have two
emergency numbers work in different ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_telephone_number has information on
this

Paul

  #7  
Old May 19th 10, 08:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Woody[_3_]
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Posts: 303
Default 112 vs 999

On a recent re-run of this topic a comment was made that many modern UK mobiles will actually dial 112 even when you input 999.

This is to make sure that you get the Emergency Operator wherever you are in Europe. It would be no good dialling 999 at the scene of a road accident in France and get through to a UK operator, whereas 112 will always get you to the local lot - whether or not they speak English is another matter altogether!

112 and 999 are also (allegedly) the only numbers that can be dialled without a SIM card in the phone.

There are also (allegedly) moves afoot to enact cross-service coupling such that if you dial 112/999 when out of range of your own SP the phone will roam onto any network it can find to complete the call.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #8  
Old May 19th 10, 08:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Tim Downie[_3_]
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Posts: 84
Default 112 vs 999

Woody wrote:

There are also (allegedly) moves afoot to enact cross-service
coupling such that if you dial 112/999 when out of range of your own
SP the phone will roam onto any network it can find to complete the
call.


No longer allegedly. Been that way since the last quarter of last year (or
thereabouts).

Tim

  #9  
Old May 19th 10, 08:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Whiskers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default 112 vs 999

On 2010-05-19, Zaz wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 16:41:03 +0100, Whiskers
wrote:
Some 'smartphones' are now capable of identifying their own location to
a certain extent, the best probably using an integrated GPS receiver and
mapping application. I don't know if the emergency operator has any way
of tapping into that information as yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if
the emergency services are investigating the possibilites.


There was a story about someone in America that accidentally called 911
from a mobile phone that he had stolen. He was selling drugs and the
operator could hear the conversation and was able to give the police the
caller's exact location.

It didn't say how this was done but I imagine it must be through GPS. I
can't imagine mobile manufacturers didn't consider the possibility of
allowing GPS coordinates to be sent when an emergency call is made.
Unless there were privacy concerns I can't think why this wouldn't have
been implemented.


More likely an urban area with small 'cells' and the cops knew how to spot
a dealer in action, or knew him by sight already, or possibly locked on to
the signal from his handset. In analogue days they could probably listen
to the actual conversation using a simple 'scanner' (as could journalists
hounding careless 'celebs').

"Geolocation" currently requires deliberate activation of the equipment
and software, and an internet connection to a suitable web site to
'publish' the information. Of course if a thief unwittingly steals a
handset that is already so connected ...

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
  #10  
Old May 19th 10, 11:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
Zaz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default 112 vs 999

On Wed, 19 May 2010 19:56:50 +0100, Theo Markettos
wrote:
One difference is that many phones will allow you to dial 112 with the
keypad locked, while other emergency numbers require the keypad to be
unlocked.

(I have no idea if there is country-specific firmware to also allow
national numbers)


When I had one of Nokia early phones (had the original 'snake' game) if
the keypad was locked and I dialled 999 or 112 it would give me the
option to call it, like on all phones.

When I went on Spain on holiday I tried it again and it would only do it
for 112, not 999. Somehow the phone 'knew' what the emergency numbers
were for the country I was in.

It seems this feature doesn't exist in new Nokia phones though.

 




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