UK Mobile Phones (uk.telecom.mobile) Mobile telephone equipment and networks.

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Old March 2nd 11, 03:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.legal,uk.telecom
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Default Telephone calls and privacy from security forces

On 02/03/2011 12:38, Cynic wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 17:44:41 +0000, White Spirit
wrote:


DES, AES or any public/private key encryption is impossible to break in
real-time using current technology. Tunnelling calls using SSL/TLS is
the simplest implementation if you're designing your own VoIP protocol
(or, better yet, using an existing one).


Of course, you have to be certain that your data can't be intercepted
and subjected to a 'man in the middle' attack...


See my explanation of how the key exchange is carried out. A
man-in-the-middle attack is useless against such a method unless the
MitM is wanting to impersonate one of the parties rather than
intercept the communication between them. And with a voice
communication it is unlikely that the impersonation would work if the
real parties have communicated previously or are known to each other.


That is true. It's sole use would be to block the communications.

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Old March 2nd 11, 06:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.legal,uk.telecom
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Default Telephone calls and privacy from security forces

Cynic wrote:

man-in-the-middle attack is useless against such a method unless the
MitM is wanting to impersonate one of the parties rather than


That is the definition of a man in the middle attack.
  #33   Report Post  
Old March 2nd 11, 07:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.legal,uk.telecom
S S is offline
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Default Telephone calls and privacy from security forces

On Feb 27, 6:27*pm, William Black wrote:
On 02/27/2011 11:34 PM, S wrote:





On Feb 27, 10:22 am, William *wrote:
On 02/27/2011 02:38 AM, wrote:


In uk.telecom.mobile Denis * *wrote:
On 26/02/11 12:35, john reves wrote:
With recent political troubles in the middle east someone in the U.K. would
like to make
** Secure ** telephone calls to arrange evacuation of persons who would be a
very likely target for hostage takers.


What would experts suggest using out of these various alternatives available
to them? A direct BT line, The 18185 indirect secondary service on that BT
line, the internet voip connection service, 'Voip Stunt' and an Asda 'pay as
you go' mobile connection.


Security and privacy of conversation without any remaining local government
or security services listening in would be more important than cost..


If your far end party wants to avoid locals overhearing their plans,
they could use skype over an ssh connection to an out of country proxy.


Of course, doing so may draw attention to them, as the encrypted traffic
stream will be visible, and it's endpoints can be determined, if not the
content.


Note, however, that unless you have already exchanged ssh encryption
keys, this is pointless, as setting up the ssh connection without
existing keys will involve a key exchange which can be intercepted.


The same really applies to any such scheme, unless you arranged it
already, it's too late to set it up when you actually need to use it..


Unless you're being watched continuously then simply splitting the key
into bits and sending them separately will probably help.


You assume a sleeping signals intelligence organisation here.


Key management isn't something you can make up on the spot...


Alternatively converse in chinese, or polish or something, probably
just as effective.


Now that really is the road to dusty death, *as the British found out in
Korea when they tried that trick with Ghurkali...


Signals intelligence organisations always employ those peculiar people
who can speak and understand thirty or forty languages.


Whose life are you willing to bet?


Code talkers were quite successful in WWII. Of course, the Navajo code
talkers are the best known, but Choctaw and Basque have also been
used, as well as Welsh by the British Army.


Only in very localised circumstances in tactical use.

When the USAAF tried the Choctaw trick over Germany twice they found
that on the second use the Germans had dug up an elderly linguistics
professor who spoke the language and they got shot to bits...


Have you got a reference for this? The few online account don't
mention anything like this, rather the opposite, they consider it
successful.
  #34   Report Post  
Old March 3rd 11, 04:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.legal,uk.telecom
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Default Telephone calls and privacy from security forces

On 03/03/2011 02:18 AM, S wrote:
On Feb 27, 6:27 pm, William wrote:
On 02/27/2011 11:34 PM, S wrote:





On Feb 27, 10:22 am, William wrote:
On 02/27/2011 02:38 AM, wrote:


In uk.telecom.mobile Denis wrote:
On 26/02/11 12:35, john reves wrote:
With recent political troubles in the middle east someone in the U.K. would
like to make
** Secure ** telephone calls to arrange evacuation of persons who would be a
very likely target for hostage takers.


What would experts suggest using out of these various alternatives available
to them? A direct BT line, The 18185 indirect secondary service on that BT
line, the internet voip connection service, 'Voip Stunt' and an Asda 'pay as
you go' mobile connection.


Security and privacy of conversation without any remaining local government
or security services listening in would be more important than cost.


If your far end party wants to avoid locals overhearing their plans,
they could use skype over an ssh connection to an out of country proxy.


Of course, doing so may draw attention to them, as the encrypted traffic
stream will be visible, and it's endpoints can be determined, if not the
content.


Note, however, that unless you have already exchanged ssh encryption
keys, this is pointless, as setting up the ssh connection without
existing keys will involve a key exchange which can be intercepted.


The same really applies to any such scheme, unless you arranged it
already, it's too late to set it up when you actually need to use it.


Unless you're being watched continuously then simply splitting the key
into bits and sending them separately will probably help.


You assume a sleeping signals intelligence organisation here.


Key management isn't something you can make up on the spot...


Alternatively converse in chinese, or polish or something, probably
just as effective.


Now that really is the road to dusty death, as the British found out in
Korea when they tried that trick with Ghurkali...


Signals intelligence organisations always employ those peculiar people
who can speak and understand thirty or forty languages.


Whose life are you willing to bet?


Code talkers were quite successful in WWII. Of course, the Navajo code
talkers are the best known, but Choctaw and Basque have also been
used, as well as Welsh by the British Army.


Only in very localised circumstances in tactical use.

When the USAAF tried the Choctaw trick over Germany twice they found
that on the second use the Germans had dug up an elderly linguistics
professor who spoke the language and they got shot to bits...


Have you got a reference for this? The few online account don't
mention anything like this, rather the opposite, they consider it
successful.


Not now, no.

Mainly because I'm over 4,000 mioles from home.


--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.
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Old March 6th 11, 04:39 AM
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I think all the guys are good but White Spirit[_2_] is right.


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