UK Mobile Phones (uk.telecom.mobile) Mobile telephone equipment and networks.

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  #11   Report Post  
Old July 13th 17, 05:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Vodafone Secure Net

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?


Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard explains in basic terms what it
does. It is a filtered connection to the public Internet. Vodafone's
"servers" are not really relevant to the issue. A filtered feed does have
some advantages. For example, if you receive a convincing phishing email
and click on a link within this email, the chances are that the rogue
website to which you would be taken will be blocked. (Unless you are an
early recipient of said email and the system hasn't yet caught up). Being
protected from the consequences of a phishing email can be quite valuable.
However, if you believe you will never be tricked by such an email then
that part of the service will be of no value to you. (I know of a number of
highly intelligent people who have fallen victim...)

If you attempt to download a known nasty file it will also block that. It
is essentially a centralised anti virus system.

In principle, it is a good idea. You have to decide if £1 per month per
device is worth it to you.

I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
anyone?



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Old July 13th 17, 08:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Vodafone Secure Net

On 13/07/2017 16:20, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:35:25 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 12/07/2017 20:12, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?

Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

It may connect via Vodafone equipment, but it is arguable whether that
equipment can or should (and can't in the case on HTTPS) inspect
everything that transits over it.

If a driver commits a crime on the road is the Highways Agency somehow
liable for it?


That's irrelevant. I'm not asking about legal liability.

I am asking whether Vodafone has a business need to keep its
'equipment' clear of viruses and if so whether such virus protection
exists whether the customer opts in or out of Vodafone Secure Net.


And my point is, from the network side they can't necessarily check (and
if your browser or app uses HTTPS it's impossible to do so) - so they
are asking if you will accept an app that will secure things on your
handset.
  #13   Report Post  
Old July 14th 17, 07:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 331
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:46:58 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 13/07/2017 16:20, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:35:25 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 12/07/2017 20:12, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the 1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?

Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

It may connect via Vodafone equipment, but it is arguable whether that
equipment can or should (and can't in the case on HTTPS) inspect
everything that transits over it.

If a driver commits a crime on the road is the Highways Agency somehow
liable for it?


That's irrelevant. I'm not asking about legal liability.

I am asking whether Vodafone has a business need to keep its
'equipment' clear of viruses and if so whether such virus protection
exists whether the customer opts in or out of Vodafone Secure Net.


And my point is, from the network side they can't necessarily check (and
if your browser or app uses HTTPS it's impossible to do so) - so they
are asking if you will accept an app that will secure things on your
handset.


Not according to Vodafone
https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard
"Simple to use. Theres no need to download any apps or software. One
person can control everything, from one place, over the Vodafone
network, for all connected devices."

And
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/n...ne-secure-net/
"Note: Secure Net doesnt work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
such as Wi-Fi."
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Old July 14th 17, 07:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 331
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:40:18 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/07/2017 16:20, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:35:25 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 12/07/2017 20:12, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:


As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the 1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?

Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

It may connect via Vodafone equipment, but it is arguable whether that
equipment can or should (and can't in the case on HTTPS) inspect
everything that transits over it.

If a driver commits a crime on the road is the Highways Agency somehow
liable for it?


That's irrelevant. I'm not asking about legal liability.

I am asking whether Vodafone has a business need to keep its
'equipment' clear of viruses and if so whether such virus protection
exists whether the customer opts in or out of Vodafone Secure Net.


Obviously they will do their level best to keep their own gear free from
viruses and trojans. They may also drop customer identified as having
botnet infected kit off the internet to prevent worms from spreading.


So what am I getting if I pay 1 that I am not getting anyway?

The data coming from a hostile website transits their network *as data
packets* it is only when reassembled on the right operating system with
the wrong sort of zero day exploit available that bad things happen.


Can Vodafone stop this for 1 and let it through to the customers who
decline to pay 1? This would take some skilled programming.

Unix is better than windows in that respect but it is not entirely
immune. You could browse a badly chosen website that infects you with
malware without their machines being any the wiser.


Android phone.
  #15   Report Post  
Old July 14th 17, 08:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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First recorded activity by MobileBanter: Nov 2010
Posts: 331
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:45:15 +0000 (UTC), Tweed
wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the 1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?


Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard explains in basic terms what it
does. It is a filtered connection to the public Internet. Vodafone's
"servers" are not really relevant to the issue. A filtered feed does have
some advantages. For example, if you receive a convincing phishing email
and click on a link within this email, the chances are that the rogue
website to which you would be taken will be blocked. (Unless you are an
early recipient of said email and the system hasn't yet caught up). Being
protected from the consequences of a phishing email can be quite valuable.
However, if you believe you will never be tricked by such an email then
that part of the service will be of no value to you. (I know of a number of
highly intelligent people who have fallen victim...)


I would never reply to an email using my mobile phone unless I knew
the sender. I would want my PC security systems to carry out all the
proper checks.

If you attempt to download a known nasty file it will also block that. It
is essentially a centralised anti virus system.


Which brings me back to my earlier question. Does Vodafone operate
two feeds - one for customers paying 1 and one for customers who
decline?

In principle, it is a good idea. You have to decide if 1 per month per
device is worth it to you.

I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
anyone?

It doesn't:
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/n...ne-secure-net/
"Note: Secure Net doesnt work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
such as Wi-Fi."


  #16   Report Post  
Old July 15th 17, 06:47 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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First recorded activity by MobileBanter: Feb 2016
Posts: 30
Default Vodafone Secure Net


I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
anyone?

It doesn't:
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/n...ne-secure-net/
"Note: Secure Net doesn’t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
such as Wi-Fi."

Then it is a possibly worse than useless product. Users can be lulled into
a false sense of security, thinking they are protected when they are not. I
would imagine that most users are connected to wifi at home, and thus not
protected. What they need to offer is a VPN endpoint so you can direct all
traffic through their filtered feed, regardless of how you are locally
connected. Large ISPs are now under huge government pressure to offer
filtered feeds to allow worried parents to restrict what their children can
see. It looks like this is Vodafone's implementation and marketing are
trying to make a few quid out of something they have to do anyway.


  #17   Report Post  
Old July 15th 17, 07:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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First recorded activity by MobileBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 8
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On 14/07/2017 20:14, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:40:18 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/07/2017 16:20, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:35:25 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 12/07/2017 20:12, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:


As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?

Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

It may connect via Vodafone equipment, but it is arguable whether that
equipment can or should (and can't in the case on HTTPS) inspect
everything that transits over it.

If a driver commits a crime on the road is the Highways Agency somehow
liable for it?

That's irrelevant. I'm not asking about legal liability.

I am asking whether Vodafone has a business need to keep its
'equipment' clear of viruses and if so whether such virus protection
exists whether the customer opts in or out of Vodafone Secure Net.


Obviously they will do their level best to keep their own gear free from
viruses and trojans. They may also drop customer identified as having
botnet infected kit off the internet to prevent worms from spreading.


So what am I getting if I pay £1 that I am not getting anyway?


Without reading their T&C's I imagine something that runs on your mobile
phone and keeps an eye on things that look like they are trying to do
something that might be heuristically like the behaviour of malware.

TBH £1/month seems excessive to me. There must be cheaper ways to
protect a mobile phone - my PC software comes with a license for mobile.

The data coming from a hostile website transits their network *as data
packets* it is only when reassembled on the right operating system with
the wrong sort of zero day exploit available that bad things happen.


Can Vodafone stop this for £1 and let it through to the customers who
decline to pay £1? This would take some skilled programming.


If you let them run some software on the phone then just like any other
local antivirus program supervisor it can protect the device more than
just allowing any old thing to run without further inspection.

Unix is better than windows in that respect but it is not entirely
immune. You could browse a badly chosen website that infects you with
malware without their machines being any the wiser.


Android phone.


A Windows phone you would probably be well advised to have some AV
product running on it if you value your sanity. I am not sure how
vulnerable an Android phone is to dedicated malware at the moment. There
hasn't really been a major attack against Android or iPhone yet.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
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Old July 15th 17, 07:53 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 8
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On 14/07/2017 21:01, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:45:15 +0000 (UTC), Tweed
wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?

Because you are not just accessing their servers?

Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard explains in basic terms what it
does. It is a filtered connection to the public Internet. Vodafone's
"servers" are not really relevant to the issue. A filtered feed does have
some advantages. For example, if you receive a convincing phishing email
and click on a link within this email, the chances are that the rogue
website to which you would be taken will be blocked. (Unless you are an
early recipient of said email and the system hasn't yet caught up). Being
protected from the consequences of a phishing email can be quite valuable.
However, if you believe you will never be tricked by such an email then
that part of the service will be of no value to you. (I know of a number of
highly intelligent people who have fallen victim...)


I would never reply to an email using my mobile phone unless I knew
the sender. I would want my PC security systems to carry out all the
proper checks.


The really nasty malware relies on that. Most of the inbound hostiles I
have seen have come from friends and business contacts who have been
infected by something (and should know better). The others pretend to be
from banks and worst of all delivery companies (and the quality of their
forgery is getting better all the time - in a hurry and if I was
expecting a parcel I might even click on one by mistake one day).

If you attempt to download a known nasty file it will also block that. It
is essentially a centralised anti virus system.


Which brings me back to my earlier question. Does Vodafone operate
two feeds - one for customers paying £1 and one for customers who
decline?


If the system is as you describe then possibly yes. eg. One protected by
a blacklist of really bad URLs to never visit and one that isn't.

In principle, it is a good idea. You have to decide if £1 per month per
device is worth it to you.

I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
anyone?

It doesn't:
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/n...ne-secure-net/
"Note: Secure Net doesn’t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
such as Wi-Fi."


So it sounds like they are filtering traffic to eliminate known danger
spots in the IP range. It will likely protect you from typo squatting on
high traffic sites like banks and Mickeysoft.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
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Old July 15th 17, 02:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 84
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:48:23 +0100
Martin Brown wrote:

Without reading their T&C's I imagine something that runs on your
mobile phone and keeps an eye on things that look like they are
trying to do something that might be heuristically like the behaviour
of malware.


Is the wrong answer - they're filtering content before delivering it to
the user.

  #20   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 04:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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First recorded activity by MobileBanter: Nov 2010
Posts: 331
Default Vodafone Secure Net

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 06:47:36 +0000 (UTC), Tweed
wrote:


I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
anyone?

It doesn't:
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/n...ne-secure-net/
"Note: Secure Net doesn?t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
such as Wi-Fi."

Then it is a possibly worse than useless product. Users can be lulled into
a false sense of security, thinking they are protected when they are not. I
would imagine that most users are connected to wifi at home, and thus not
protected. What they need to offer is a VPN endpoint so you can direct all
traffic through their filtered feed, regardless of how you are locally
connected. Large ISPs are now under huge government pressure to offer
filtered feeds to allow worried parents to restrict what their children can
see. It looks like this is Vodafone's implementation and marketing are
trying to make a few quid out of something they have to do anyway.

Thanks, everyone. The more I read the less convinced I am that this
service is worth having at all, let alone paying 1 per month for. I
am not convinced about their ability to feed viruses to non-payers !!!


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