UK Mobile Phones (uk.telecom.mobile) Mobile telephone equipment and networks.

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Old January 18th 18, 05:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons


It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?


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Old January 18th 18, 06:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.

--
Chris Green
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Old January 18th 18, 06:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

Chris Green wrote:
Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.


Faraday cages are harder than you might imagine. I’ve used a mobile phone
inside a steel 20 foot shipping container with the doors shut. Go figure...

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Old January 18th 18, 09:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons



"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.


Active blocking of mobile signals is illegal

HMG seems incapable of making an exception to that rule for Prisons

passive blocking of mobile signals is unreliable

tim



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Chris Green
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Old January 18th 18, 09:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

On 18/01/2018 17:59, Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?


There was a news report recently that they were testing monitoring for
mobile phone activity.



New tech to block mobile phones in Scottish jails
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41971718


There has also been talk of banning the sale of the mini mobile phones
which are obviously designed for smuggling into places like prisons. I
was told that someone was found with a significant number of them hidden
"internally".



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Old January 18th 18, 10:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.


Active blocking of mobile signals is illegal

HMG seems incapable of making an exception to that rule for Prisons

passive blocking of mobile signals is unreliable



Before the use of mobile phones was permitted in our local hospital, I’m
sure that they had some sort of gadget that could detect switched on
mobiles. It issued an automated message telling you to turn you phone off.

I don’t know what the range of the gadget was but you would think it could
be used to “sweep” an area for mobile phones or highlight when one was
being used in an area where they weren’t permitted.

Always possible I’m misremembering all this of course.

Tim


--
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Old January 18th 18, 11:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.


Active blocking of mobile signals is illegal

HMG seems incapable of making an exception to that rule for Prisons

passive blocking of mobile signals is unreliable



Before the use of mobile phones was permitted in our local hospital, Im
sure that they had some sort of gadget that could detect switched on
mobiles. It issued an automated message telling you to turn you phone off.

I dont know what the range of the gadget was but you would think it could
be used to sweep an area for mobile phones or highlight when one was
being used in an area where they werent permitted.

Always possible Im misremembering all this of course.

Tim


Perhaps it was a passive system that simply detected RF in the
relevant bands.

Sophisticated active systems also exist that emulate a BTS and can
ping any handsets in the vicinity and capture the responses. They can
no doubt selectively ping an individual handset too. I doubt if that
would be routinely authorised in a hospital though.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
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Old January 19th 18, 09:08 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons



"Graham." wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render
them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local
cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The
pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this
and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the
genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico
cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the
cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source
of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.

Active blocking of mobile signals is illegal

HMG seems incapable of making an exception to that rule for Prisons

passive blocking of mobile signals is unreliable



Before the use of mobile phones was permitted in our local hospital, I'm
sure that they had some sort of gadget that could detect switched on
mobiles. It issued an automated message telling you to turn you phone off.


Surprised by this, but not fundamentally impossible

but given that the "turn you phone off" command isn't enforceable would
probably not be a cost effective solution


I don't know what the range of the gadget was but you would think it could
be used to "sweep" an area for mobile phones or highlight when one was
being used in an area where they weren't permitted.

Always possible I'm misremembering all this of course.

Tim


Perhaps it was a passive system that simply detected RF in the
relevant bands.


then it couldn't send a message telling *you* to turn off

tim


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Old January 19th 18, 09:20 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

On 18/01/2018 18:32, Chris Green wrote:
Tweed wrote:

It is constantly reported in the media that there is a problem with
smuggled mobile phones in prisons. Why is it not possible to render them
useless by a series of pico cells that connect to nothing? A local cell
with a stronger signal strength is going to capture the mobile. The pico
cells can emulate all the networks, as it is HMG that is running this and
they can pass legislation to exempt themselves from spoofing the genuine
networks. It is often argued that this will affect people nearby but
outside of the prison, but with a suitable number of low power pico cells
it should be possible tightly define the coverage area. Am I being a
conspiracy theorist in thinking that this is already done, but the cells
connect to the phone network via an intercept, and are a useful source of
intelligence?

It's too obviously simple. The powers that be simply don't understand
simple engineering solutions to things like this. Even a Faraday cage
wouldn't be all that difficult surely, when prisoners are outside you
can *see* what they're doing so just screen their rooms and indoor
areas.


It is quite difficult to make a reliable Faraday cage that works at
microwave frequencies. There is a pretty good chance that your phone
will still ring when inside your domestic microwave oven.

If HMG were serious about it they would set up a private network of pico
cells in the core of the prison that identified the location of the
phone by triangulation whilst adding enough noise and distortion to keep
them on the line for as long as possible. That way you catch the user
and the phone. There are devices that can actively block mobile phone
use but they are illegal to use in the UK and HMG can't break the law...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
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Old January 19th 18, 09:30 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Mobile in Prisons

Martin Brown wrote:

There are devices that can actively block mobile phone
use but they are illegal to use in the UK and HMG can't break the law...


But they can change the law...


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