UK Mobile Phones (uk.telecom.mobile) Mobile telephone equipment and networks.

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  #101   Report Post  
Old December 5th 18, 05:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

On 05/12/2018 10:27, NY wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote in message
...
Anyway, while the laptop is writing huge files to somewhere else
(assuming it is), I can do other things on the same laptop or in another
computer. The network doesn't saturate because there are proper
switches, and the network is gigabit, so the laptop can not saturate it.


That depends on having all the right infrastructure. Ethernet is great
for connecting static computers, and I would never use wifi (especially
for fast PC-to-PC transfers that don't involve the internet) if I had
the option of Ethernet instead, but installing the cable is the big
problem because you need to drill holes through walls or door frames to
take it from one room to another.


My own working PCs and system printer are hard wired networked but my
portables and another printer are over Wifi. I seldom see any glitches
although I have made sure I am on the least contested channel.

No wonder people use Homeplug devices to make use of the wiring that is
already present in any building: the mains. It's an ugly way of doing
it, and it plays havoc with AM and SW radio reception, but it is less
intrusive than drilling holes everywhere and trying to hide cables down
the side of carpets or routing it through doorways under the metal strip
that divides one carpet from another.


I also do that but only because I CBA to run another ethernet cable or
configure the second switch I have already bought to allow multiple
hardwired ethernet devices in the living room. TV and radio now each
want their own streaming feed and Wifi signal is too weak there.

The sooner it becomes mandatory for all houses to have Cat 5 cabling and
sockets in every room, the better.


That is a bit overkill. A couple near the TV aerial sockets would be
handy though.

When wifi actually performs as it is supposed to, then I suppose it will
take over, but I've found it to be unreliable. I get spontaneous
disconnections requiring a wireless adaptor or access point to be
disabled/re-enabled, more often than I would like: and if that happens
when a PC is unattended and you are accessing it remotely by RealVNC or
TeamViewer, then you are stuffed. It's also slow. Routers and laptops
may claim to support the latest standard, but I've found that I rarely
get a wifi connection that is anywhere near the rated speed - and that's
the raw connection speed, as reported by Task Manager | Networking, even
before you try copying a big file over it. Interference may be a
problem, but I've had it happen even when InSSIDer shows no other wifi
network - on *any* channel. My Win 7 laptop initially connects at about
40 Mbps when talking to a Wireless G router or about 80 to Wireless N
(slower than theoretical max of 54 or 900 respectively), but then that
link speed gradually degrades over an hour or so until it ends up at
about 5 Mbps.


I have never seen any Wifi degradation like you describe that were not
due to local interference from neighbours or arc welding.

I have known some Apple products that really don't get on at all with
certain router chipsets but despite the more variation in PC hardware I
have never had all that much bother with Wifi connections. It mostly
just works apart from in heavily shielded parts of the house.

Even for a newly-rebooted laptop which is next to the router and with no
other wifi on any channel, or any other device talking to the router,
the time to copy a 1 GB video file increases by an order of magnitude
when using wifi rather than Ethernet for a PC-to-PC transfer - and
that's with one of the two computers connected by Ethernet, so it's not
a problem of the traffic from PC A to the router "interfering" with
traffic from the router to PC B.


I expect it is a problem with limited buffer space in the router. I have
seen some funny things when one link is much faster than the other with
wired connections. One of my old routers had a fault where some 1000M
capable devices got given a 10M link speed.

But for low-volume traffic where speed isn't critical, such as web
browsing and sending/receiving email, wifi is great for portable devices
like phones and tablets. Just don't rely on it for streaming video from
"server" PC to a Plex client etc.


I have had it work OK for streaming when there is enough signal. My
internet connection is so slow that it is by far the limiting factor.
Even slowest Wifi available today would be an order of magnitude faster.

But all of this is getting off the subject, which was the comparison of
mobile internet versus ADSL/VDSL. The subject line of the thread
misleadingly equates "wifi" with "xDSL", but then that's because it's
quoting an article which does the same :-)


Working a 3G mobile node I can easily get a 20Mbps connection at quiet
times of day that is 4x faster than my carefully tuned landline and 10x
faster than the average ADSL landline service in this area.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

  #102   Report Post  
Old December 5th 18, 05:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

NY wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote in message
...
Anyway, while the laptop is writing huge files to somewhere else
(assuming it is), I can do other things on the same laptop or in another
computer. The network doesn't saturate because there are proper
switches, and the network is gigabit, so the laptop can not saturate it.


That depends on having all the right infrastructure. Ethernet is great
for connecting static computers, and I would never use wifi (especially
for fast PC-to-PC transfers that don't involve the internet) if I had
the option of Ethernet instead, but installing the cable is the big
problem because you need to drill holes through walls or door frames to
take it from one room to another.

No wonder people use Homeplug devices to make use of the wiring that is
already present in any building: the mains. It's an ugly way of doing
it, and it plays havoc with AM and SW radio reception, but it is less
intrusive than drilling holes everywhere and trying to hide cables down
the side of carpets or routing it through doorways under the metal strip
that divides one carpet from another.

The sooner it becomes mandatory for all houses to have Cat 5 cabling and
sockets in every room, the better.


The issue also affects mains wiring and plumbing. If you want to add or
change mains sockets, or move a radiator, then there is significant
work. It would all be much easier if there were service ducts installed
as the house was being built. Some old houses in the USA which tend to
feature in horror movies have service corridors which are used by the
"baddies", so I suspect they are a fairly standard feature.

Even business premises suffer from a lack of sensible service ducts. In
some cases there are suspended ceilings and it's practical to install
plumbing, power wiring, and network cable above the ceiling. Similarly
some premises have false floors for the same purpose.

[snip]

Even in an ideal world the throughput achived using WiFi will generally
not be as good as with Ethernet cable, because Wifi is a half-duplex
system operating with a shared spectrum. (Remember CSMA/CD in the days
of co-ax network cable?) By contrast Ethernet cables are usually
operated full-duplex and the spectrum between the client device and the
switch is dedicated, not shared.

--
Graham J
  #103   Report Post  
Old December 5th 18, 05:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

In article , Graham J
wrote:

Even in an ideal world the throughput achived using WiFi will generally
not be as good as with Ethernet cable, because Wifi is a half-duplex
system operating with a shared spectrum.


in the real world, wifi is as fast or faster than gigabit ethernet,
however, not as fast as 10gig-e (yet). the gigabit uplink of the access
point is the bottleneck.

<https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/imag...sus_rtac86u/as
us_rtac86u_5ghz_peak_dn.jpg
  #104   Report Post  
Old December 5th 18, 07:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

On 05/12/2018 18.04, 123456789 wrote:
On 12/5/2018 7:44 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Oh, I have those holes :-) I did the cabling myself. Took some
effort.


In my last house I had lots of holes also...but more for antennas.

As I started as a HAM...


I'm a ham too, licensed in 57. Was CW only for many years but like
Usenet the old CW ops were dying off. And the new young hams operated
like CBers. (A license free radio service in the US.)


I started, but I abandoned. Studies interfered, and life... and
computers. :-)

But something remains, like trying to not broadcast interference.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
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Old December 5th 18, 07:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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On 05/12/2018 16.46, NY wrote:

The spontaneous disconnection is less common with the Samsung laptop /
TP-Link router combination, but I've still had a few cases where the
laptop has had to be rebooted (or at least, disable/enable wireless
adaptor) when a connection has been lost. I wouldn't want to trust it
for a PC that I had to access remotely, where you cannot disable and
re-enable wifi once you've lost the remote connection to it.


In that case you can run a watchdog process on the remote machine, that
resets the connection when it fails to ping somewhere. Or even reboots.

I do that to my router.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


  #106   Report Post  
Old December 5th 18, 07:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
NY NY is offline
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , 123456789
wrote:


My current house has an HOA...no antennas allowed.


they can only restrict modifications to the structure, not antennas, as
per fcc regulations.


Different countries have different regulations. When my house in the UK was
built, there was a builder's covenant which was part of the title deeds for
each house which said no external aerials. So everyone had humungous aerials
with amplifiers in the loft. Later on, when that covenant lapsed, n years
after the houses had been built and the builder's publicity photos had been
taken, there was no problem with some people then having satellite dishes on
the front (south-facing) wall.

I'm not sure how legally binding the original builder's restriction was, but
everyone abided by it: it just meant a slightly more expensive aerial, and
initially no dish for those people who wantred Sky rather than Freeview.

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Old December 5th 18, 07:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
NY NY is offline
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news
I have never seen any Wifi degradation like you describe that were not due
to local interference from neighbours or arc welding.


I'd put it down to local interference, if the problem had not followed me
when I moved house.

Weird that it affects several PCs, several routers and two different
locations where router channel was deliberately chosen to have no overlaps
with neighbouring networks.


I have known some Apple products that really don't get on at all with
certain router chipsets but despite the more variation in PC hardware I
have never had all that much bother with Wifi connections. It mostly just
works apart from in heavily shielded parts of the house.


Ah, that's interesting, My wife often moans that her iPad gets very slow web
browsing and dropped connections when my Windows laptop and Android phone
work fine.

  #108   Report Post  
Old December 5th 18, 07:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

On 05/12/2018 15.51, nospam wrote:
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

Anyway, while the laptop is writing huge files to somewhere else
(assuming it is), I can do other things on the same laptop or in another
computer.


except that you or others can't do anything with those files until it's
done copying.


Not at all. I can on another computer copy the same file to another
destination. And on any of those destinations I can start vlc to watch
that file, which happens to be a movie that is being copied from
computer to computer - if I wish to do so.


The network doesn't saturate because there are proper
switches, and the network is gigabit, so the laptop can not saturate it.


how old is this mystery laptop that it doesn't have gigabit?


About 2010. A Compaq presario something.

computers, servers, etc made in the past decade (actually longer than
that) have gigabit, which means it *will* saturate the network.


Well, not mine. :-p

--
Cheers, Carlos.
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Old December 5th 18, 07:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

On 05/12/2018 15.51, nospam wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

In the meantime, in the real world, people don't 'wait' when they're
copying files, they just do something else.

they might not sit and watch the progress bar, but they do have to wait
until the copy has completed to continue, whether it's removing the usb
stick, unmounting the external hard drive, or others being able to
access the files on the server.

No such problem. Just use a proper multitasking and multiuser operating
system.


A "proper multitasking and multiuser operating system" (which ones do and
don't fall into this category, I wonder - cue Linux versus MacOS versus
Windows snobbery?) will solve the third problem of "others being able to
access the files on the server", but it doesn't solve the problem that you
will still have to wait until the copy has completed before being able to
disconnect/unmount a USB stick or external disk drive.


even for servers, others can't access the files until everything has
completed copying.


Nope :-p

--
Cheers, Carlos.
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Old December 5th 18, 07:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

On 05/12/2018 15.51, nospam wrote:
In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

And for backup there's this
thing called 'unattended backup'. I hope nospam doesn't mind that while
I'm typing this, my unattended backup is running. Can't wait - oops,
make that: don't have to wait - till it's finished.

missing the point entirely, as usual.

copying a 2 terabyte drive (which is small these days) via usb 2 takes
roughly a day (been there, done that). that would take a couple of days
over 100b-t network.

Ha! My laptop doesn't have a 2 TB disk. So, again, not an issue. :-p


But even if one has a 2TB drive, one normally doesn't have to backup
(note how nospam does yet another dodge-and-divert from making backup to
'copying') the whole drive. There are these concepts of differential and
incremental backup.


it's not a dodge and divert.

the point you *still* miss is that with gigabit being standard, there
is no point in intentionally using much slower 100bt.


Nononono. It is not intentionally using 100Mbit. It is keeping using
hardware that work fine but don't have modern features, and are not
replaced because the replacement cost money.

If you so abhor we using five year old hardware, well, you can
contribute with a donation. I promise to label them appropriately in
your honour. ;-)

And while we are in that mood, my desktop still uses USB2. I would
appreciate an expansion card for USB3, because USB2 is so slowwww!

--
Cheers, Carlos.


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