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  #141   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 03:33 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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On 06/12/2018 18.18, NY wrote:
"nospam" wrote in message
...
the industry thinks gigabit is a must have, especially given the amount
of data people are managing and that nvme ssds, usb3 and thunderbolt
are *much* faster.


I would imagine that a lot of users only transfer data between various
PCs and the internet (eg web browsing, sending/receiving emails,
streaming movies from Netflix etc), and don't make much use of PC-to-PC
transfers. For them, the most important thing is WAN speed (router to
internet), so 10 Mbps may be sufficient for some people with ADSL, and
100 Mbps will be sufficient for most people with FTTC/VDSL.

Those of us who transfer data between PCs and so need 1000 Mbps are
either running a business which has its own server to provide shared
access to files used by multiple PCs, or else have a NAS for serving
movies to one or more computers, tablets, Roku boxes etc.


I need eating and sleeping. I do not *need* gigabit. I like gigabit and
of course I install gigabit.



As an aside, does USB degrade gracefully as cable length is increased? I
saw a comparison of RS232 versus USB (1, 2 or 3) and it mentioned that
RS232 is still better than USB where peripherals need to be a long
distance from the computer that is driving them. Leaving aside the fact
that Ethernet is probably better than either RS232 or USB for this, how
does USB cope with long lines? If two USB3 devices or two USB2 devices
are connected by a very long USB lead, will it just fail completely, or
will they negotiate a lower speed (eg USB3 degrades to USB2 or USB1
speed) that the long line is capable of supporting?


USB is very limited in the distance it can work with. Not even 10 metres.

RS232 can cope with relatively long distances, and of course you can
adjust or negotiate a slower speed at larger distances. Or use a current
loop instead. I have not seen "fibre" rs232 but it should be possible.
Or you can use a modem. I have seem "modems" for two (or was it more?)
wires without a telephone service. I may have one or two stored
somewhere so I can check.

Ethernet can cope with distance, depending on the actual technology
used. See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_physical_layer


--
Cheers, Carlos.

  #142   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 03:45 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

Those of us who transfer data between PCs and so need 1000 Mbps are either
running a business which has its own server to provide shared access to
files used by multiple PCs, or else have a NAS for serving movies to one
or
more computers, tablets, Roku boxes etc.


most people have more than 1 device and *do* transfer between them,
whether it's another computer or a nas or whatever else.


Ha. there you go with your exaggerations.


it's not an exaggeration.

although this is just the usa, it's not unusual:
<https://www.recode.net/2014/11/18/11...ercent-of-u-s-
households-have-three-or-more-devices
It turns out that 90 percent of U.S. households have three or more
Internet-connected devices, while just under half of households have
five or more devices and nearly a quarter use seven or more devices.
The average number of connected devices per household is 5.2, with
that number seen to be climbing in the coming years.

I know many people that don't even know they can transfer files from
computer to computer without needing to send an email via gmail.


that doesn't mean everyone is like that.

in many cases, people transfer content between devices without even
realizing it, such as using a media server or an automated backup.
  #143   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 12:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Carlos E.R. schreef op Vr 7 Dec 2018 om 04:20:
On 06/12/2018 18.29, nospam wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

the industry thinks gigabit is a must have, especially given the amount
of data people are managing and that nvme ssds, usb3 and thunderbolt
are *much* faster.

I would imagine that a lot of users only transfer data between various PCs
and the internet (eg web browsing, sending/receiving emails, streaming
movies from Netflix etc), and don't make much use of PC-to-PC transfers. For
them, the most important thing is WAN speed (router to internet), so 10 Mbps
may be sufficient for some people with ADSL, and 100 Mbps will be sufficient
for most people with FTTC/VDSL.

Those of us who transfer data between PCs and so need 1000 Mbps are either
running a business which has its own server to provide shared access to
files used by multiple PCs, or else have a NAS for serving movies to one or
more computers, tablets, Roku boxes etc.


most people have more than 1 device and *do* transfer between them,
whether it's another computer or a nas or whatever else.


Ha. there you go with your exaggerations.

I know many people that don't even know they can transfer files from
computer to computer without needing to send an email via gmail.



TeamViewer.

--
\ / http://nieuwsgroepen.tk
-------------///----------------------------------
/ \ Bye, BugHunter
  #144   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 12:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
NY NY is offline
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"nospam" wrote in message
...
I know many people that don't even know they can transfer files from
computer to computer without needing to send an email via gmail.


that doesn't mean everyone is like that.

in many cases, people transfer content between devices without even
realizing it, such as using a media server or an automated backup


That is a good point. I do PC support for local people (often retired) so I
may see a disproportionally high selection of non-computer-literate people.
I know how to set up PC-to-PC access (shared drives/printers, RealVNC, SSH,
SyncToy backup from a shared drive on another PC etc) and I'm never sure
what proportion of other people have that sort of knowledge. Maybe I'm
underestimating the number of people who can so it...



I wonder how much of that traffic is actually direct PC-to-PC. A lot of
things that you'd think were local actually involve transferring data to a
central server and then back to the other PC that might be sitting right
next to it.

This is certainly true of remote-access software like TeamViewer and
RealVNC. I sometimes use these to access my PC downstairs from my laptop or
phone upstairs to perform tasks on the downstairs PC (as opposed to
accessing shared folders from another device). And that is painfully slow
because all the data that makes up the image of the screen has to go out to
a central TeamViewer/RealVNC server and then back again.

RealVNC requires a paid-for subscription to be able to make a direct
connection between two PCs which are on the same LAN, at "you must be
joking" prices. The only exception is my Raspberry Pi which comes
pre-installed with a RealVNC server in the Raspbian image, so I can connect
to that by a direct link - and it's a hell of a lot faster than traffic
going the long way round via my very slow internet connection.

1.5 Mbps down and 0.2 Mbps up is taking the ****, but it's my parents'
holiday cottage where we are living until we find a house to move to; decent
FTTC internet is one of the "technology" pre-requisites in choosing a house,
along with good Freeview television reception.



  #145   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 12:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
NY NY is offline
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"BugHunter" wrote in message
news
I know many people that don't even know they can transfer files from
computer to computer without needing to send an email via gmail.


TeamViewer.


Which transfers via the internet, not a direct local PC-to-PC connection, as
far as I know. Likewise for RealVNC, unless you pay stupid amounts of money
for a paid subscription rather than a free connection.

Sometimes transferring by email. An inefficient "it just works" email method
may be slow and cumbersome but sometimes it can be easier than configuring
special software to do it - eg setting up an SMB with *write* permission. I
store all my documents etc below the c:\users\public folder so I will have
read and write permission from any other computer on the network, without
having to wade through the intricacies of Windows file permissions. My eyes
glaze over at that point, because I'm much more interesting in being able to
*do* something rather than in being able to make sure that the wrong people
can *not do* it. I really ought to take the time to swot up the proper way,
with proper named and password-protected user accounts, and properly
assigned permissions for each user or each group of users (read/write for
some, read-only for others), rather than allowing everyone to do everything
as the lazy approach :-) If I didn't trust my wife, or if we had
inquisitive relations using our wifi, it would be a different matter...

I suppose my approach is to have good perimeter security (physical to
prevent access to PCs and Ethernet, non-trivial wifi password) and then be
lax about security within the network. Good, but could be better :-)



  #146   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 01:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
NY NY is offline
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"Carlos E.R." wrote in message
...

USB is very limited in the distance it can work with. Not even 10 metres.

RS232 can cope with relatively long distances, and of course you can
adjust or negotiate a slower speed at larger distances. Or use a current
loop instead. I have not seen "fibre" rs232 but it should be possible.
Or you can use a modem. I have seem "modems" for two (or was it more?)
wires without a telephone service. I may have one or two stored
somewhere so I can check.

Ethernet can cope with distance, depending on the actual technology
used. See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_physical_layer


Are there range-extenders for connecting a USB device to a computer that is
outside of range? I have a weather station which has a USB interface which
makes the weather station look like an RS232 device (COM1 on Windows,
/dev/ttyUSB0 on Linux). The console has to be within USB cable length of the
computer that logs the data (currently a Raspberry Pi) and I've wondered
whether there might be a way of connecting the two via some longer cable -
maybe USB/RS232 converters and good old twisted pair RS232. Oh the joys of
setting up RS232 with all its permutations of baud rate, number of stop
bits, XON/XOFF or RTS/CTS flow control :-)

If you connect USB3 peripheral to USB3 port on PC, using a very long cable,
does it negotiate down to a lower speed such as USB1 which would work at
that length, or does it just try the best that the devices will support, and
then fail because if signal degradation. I know that USB3 devices will work
in a USB2 or USB1 ports, and vice versa, but what about where both ends
support a high speed and it is the cable that is the limiting factor?

  #147   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 01:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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In article , NY
wrote:

Are there range-extenders for connecting a USB device to a computer that is
outside of range?


yes. look for an active extension or repeater cable.

you can also share a usb device on the network with most routers,
although it's usually only hard drives and printers. there are network
usb adapters that can work with other devices.

I have a weather station which has a USB interface which
makes the weather station look like an RS232 device (COM1 on Windows,
/dev/ttyUSB0 on Linux). The console has to be within USB cable length of the
computer that logs the data (currently a Raspberry Pi) and I've wondered
whether there might be a way of connecting the two via some longer cable -
maybe USB/RS232 converters and good old twisted pair RS232. Oh the joys of
setting up RS232 with all its permutations of baud rate, number of stop
bits, XON/XOFF or RTS/CTS flow control :-)


the raspberry pi can be next to the weather station with it accessible
via ethernet or wifi.

If you connect USB3 peripheral to USB3 port on PC, using a very long cable,
does it negotiate down to a lower speed such as USB1 which would work at
that length, or does it just try the best that the devices will support, and
then fail because if signal degradation. I know that USB3 devices will work
in a USB2 or USB1 ports, and vice versa, but what about where both ends
support a high speed and it is the cable that is the limiting factor?


no. if the cable is too long, it won't work correctly, if at all.
  #148   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 04:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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Default Mobile faster than wi-fi in many countries

On 12/7/2018 5:59 AM, NY wrote:
"BugHunter" wrote in message


TeamViewer.


Which transfers via the internet, not a direct local PC-to-PC
connection, as far as I know. Likewise for RealVNC, unless you pay
stupid amounts of money for a paid subscription rather than a free
connection.


I've used Google Drive (GD) for awhile now and it works well for ME
(YMMV). I pay $2/mo US for 100GB.

My GD can be accessed in several ways. For my Android devices and my
Chromebook I use the Android GD app. For my 32GB storage challenged W10
tablet I access the GD site with a browser. For my W10 laptop I use GD
Sync which keeps an actual GD copy synced on the local drive.

I store all my documents etc below the c:\users\public folder


That folder can be mapped to Google Drive.

so I will have read and write permission from any other computer on
the network, without having to wade through the intricacies of
Windows file permissions.


Making a change to GD on any device is immediately reflected to all
other devices. Small changes take seconds. Large changes are slow as
would be expected, but are done in the background.

I'm much more interesting in being able to *do* something rather
than in being able to make sure that the wrong people can *not do*
it.


Though I doubt that any REAL person will pick my Google account out of
the hundreds of millions of others to read, I do encrypt my sensitive files.

I suppose my approach is to have good perimeter security (physical
to prevent access to PCs and Ethernet, non-trivial wifi password)
and then be lax about security within the network. Good, but could
be better :-)


I'm gonna let you in on one of my secrets. The password to my W10 tablet
is 'P'. Yep. A ONE LETTER password. Now be honest, if you were trying to
break my password would you think of trying only one letter?? What idiot
would do that, right? Don't answer that...

Perhaps more amazing (to me) is that the super security conscious
Windows OS lets me do it...

  #149   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 06:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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On 07/12/2018 13.08, BugHunter wrote:
Carlos E.R. schreef op Vr 7 Dec 2018 om 04:20:
On 06/12/2018 18.29, nospam wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

the industry thinks gigabit is a must have, especially given the amount
of data people are managing and that nvme ssds, usb3 and thunderbolt
are *much* faster.

I would imagine that a lot of users only transfer data between various PCs
and the internet (eg web browsing, sending/receiving emails, streaming
movies from Netflix etc), and don't make much use of PC-to-PC transfers. For
them, the most important thing is WAN speed (router to internet), so 10 Mbps
may be sufficient for some people with ADSL, and 100 Mbps will be sufficient
for most people with FTTC/VDSL.

Those of us who transfer data between PCs and so need 1000 Mbps are either
running a business which has its own server to provide shared access to
files used by multiple PCs, or else have a NAS for serving movies to one or
more computers, tablets, Roku boxes etc.

most people have more than 1 device and *do* transfer between them,
whether it's another computer or a nas or whatever else.


Ha. there you go with your exaggerations.

I know many people that don't even know they can transfer files from
computer to computer without needing to send an email via gmail.



TeamViewer.


I know people that had a pay antivirus (I forgot which). Well, they
convinced them that they needed a VPN to secure their machines and their
internet, but they did not know how to install it, so they called me.

I fumed.

In the end I told them to call the supplier and revoke the VPN license
(or they would automatically charge the credit card periodically), after
explaining what it was about and realizing they did not need that
complication. Privacy? What is that, when there is google, facebook and
the rest? They would need a training on privacy first, then another on
VPN and a technician on call...

So no, they would not know how to setup TVr either.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #150   Report Post  
Old December 7th 18, 06:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.broadband
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On 07/12/2018 14.11, NY wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote in message
...

USB is very limited in the distance it can work with. Not even 10 metres.

RS232 can cope with relatively long distances, and of course you can
adjust or negotiate a slower speed at larger distances. Or use a current
loop instead.* I have not seen "fibre" rs232 but it should be possible.
Or you can use a modem. I have seem "modems" for two (or was it more?)
wires without a telephone service. I may have one or two stored
somewhere so I can check.

Ethernet can cope with distance, depending on the actual technology
used. See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_physical_layer


Are there range-extenders for connecting a USB device to a computer that
is outside of range?


I don't know. Maybe.

I google for "USB range extender" but what I find is WiFi extenders
instead. Huh, I found one:

<http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/




An USB to WiFi/ethernet connection looks very interesting for your use
case, though, if it exists. I have not tried it.

I have a weather station which has a USB interface
which makes the weather station look like an RS232 device (COM1 on
Windows, /dev/ttyUSB0 on Linux). The console has to be within USB cable
length of the computer that logs the data (currently a Raspberry Pi) and
I've wondered whether there might be a way of connecting the two via
some longer cable - maybe USB/RS232 converters and good old twisted pair
RS232. Oh the joys of setting up RS232 with all its permutations of baud
rate, number of stop bits, XON/XOFF or RTS/CTS flow control :-)


Ah, usb-rs232 converter. So rs2332-usb-rs232---- cable ---- computer

with perhaps another converter at the computer end. Wow, LOL. Tricky.


If you connect USB3 peripheral to USB3 port on PC, using a very long
cable, does it negotiate down to a lower speed such as USB1 which would
work at that length, or does it just try the best that the devices will
support, and then fail because if signal degradation. I know that USB3
devices will work in a USB2 or USB1 ports, and vice versa, but what
about where both ends support a high speed and it is the cable that is
the limiting factor?


I think it simply fails.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


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