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Old December 18th 19, 01:03 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On 17/12/2019 18.25, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:40:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The "functionality" of backing up apps, data, contacts, calendar, files,
photos, videos, etc., is easily done WITHOUT a Google Account set up on the
phone (I back everything up to the sdcard for example).


NOT easily.


Hi Carlos,

Local backup is trivial, on all platforms (other than on iOS, IMHO).
o You just need to be intelligent about the backup process & app selection.

Part I: Organize the hierarchy so all data you care about is in "data".
Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).


Let's see...


We go way back so I'll tread carefully with the facts.
1. I back up Windows all the time
2. I back up Linux all the time.
3. I back up my iPads all the time.
4. I back up my Androids all the time.

As you may recall from the Windows newsgroup, there are fundamentally three
kinds of backup, as I see them.
1. Backing up the "Royal mess" (data scattered everywhere)
2. The "Scared ****less" dd bit-for-bit copy essentially of apps & data
3. Backing up a well-organized data hierarchy (a single data directory)

Obviously most people use #1, where they can't even _find_ their data most
of the time; while a lot of the scared-****less people use #2 where they're
so afraid of their apps that they insist on everything being copied,
including the apps.

Me?

I maintain a well-organized hierarchy on all platforms (it's hardest on
iOS, next hardest on Android, almost simplest on Linux, and simplest on
Windows) - which is _trivial_ to back up, since all the work is done by
organizing things.

For example, see:
o What's the best way to MOVE an app to where it belongs, after it has already been installed?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/hqKijRgHOC0/vB3pH-sZAgAJ

Notice it takes intelligence & understanding & most of all, forethought!
o Is there a way to get Google Play to cough up the .apk file?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/-XsfPuMqopY/I6MH_lRaAgAJ

Essentially, any data I care about, goes into the "data" hierarchy; while
any apps I care about have their initial installers saved into the
"software" hierarchy; and, in addition, on the PC, every program is
installed in the "apps" hierarchy, where all menus are maintained in the
"data" hierarchy such that the exact same menu (literally, the exact
folders and shortcuts that worked on Windows XP worked just fine in Windows
7 and on Windows 10 (plenty of tutorials I've written on that topic)).

See, for example:
o Tutorial for setting up a well-organized consistent efficient Windows menu system
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/eWU-jOkFRtU/lkVU8yolBQAJ

So, on Windows & Linux and Android, you simply back up the "data"
hierarchy, and you're done for the data. Then you back up the "software"
hierarchy, and you're done for the apps. The menus come over EXACTLY and
work exactly after the re-install of the operating system (yes, even on
Android, since nova free handles that homescreen menu perfectly).

I accept that there may be nobody else on the planet who knows how to do
what I know how to do; but without hubris, I state that I've written
_plenty_ of tutorials to show people how to back up this easily, so if they
think it can't be done, they simply haven't read (or understood) what those
tutorials showed them how to do.

In short, on Android, I only need to back up two hiearchies:
a. /sdcard0/data0/*
b. /sdcard1/data1/*

Of course, apps have to be chosen intelligently (e.g., they need to be able
to change the DCIM location, or the APK backup location, or the map and
waypoint file locations, or the downloaded files location, or the SMS
communications & particularly the MMS attachments, etc.) which is the
second part of this three part system.

Part I: Organize the hierarchy so data you care about is in "data".
Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).



You took more than 50 words to explain it. That is *too complex*

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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Old December 18th 19, 01:10 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On 18/12/2019 00.28, David Wade wrote:
On 17/12/2019 17:25, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:44:07 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have
without it?

Nice google tools.

Easier life.


Hi Carlos,

I agree with you in that I don't doubt for a moment that for people to
exactly follow the highly marketed cloud providers' suggestion to forever
rent their private data back from the cloud providers themselves, is
"easier" than actually thinking about keeping their personal data local.
o Google adds the ability to automatically store & manage device
backups through Google One (via subscription)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/v6S1AFFLr0c/nfKWRfYIBAAJ


Most people, IMHO, simply give up on intelligent backup (on most
platforms):
o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.


I very much doubt that. Not easy nor trivial. Trivial is seeking a
button on a phone just purchased and push it.


See this thread for more details on why people do what they often do...
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data
on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ



How many Android users have the ability to o that. I am a competent IT
professional. I think that in order to do what you say would require me
to spend considerable time week planing and executing it.

Even if I had time there are 100 apps on my phone. Many, e.g. Uber,
Careem, Weigh****chers, Ikea, Central Heating controller App (Draytek
Wiser) don't have any equivalents on F-Droid.

So yes, I could avoid a google account, but in doing so its like tying
one hand behind my back. I really just want to use it.


Right.

Of course part of the price I pay is that I get adds targetted to what
google thinks I need.


I may keep a few things out of google noses, but very few.


Even worse still I see folks who haven't set up a cloud account and who
then loose their phones and are aghast that their memories are all gone.


Indeed...


Simply setting up a cloud account, google, onedrive or dropbox would
mean all this was saved....


If I were that worried about privacy I would not use a smartphone, or
I'd try to find a Linux one. I would use a plain phone and a tablet or
palm-top computer.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
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Old December 18th 19, 11:16 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:10:12 +0100
"Carlos E.R." wrote:

Of course part of the price I pay is that I get adds targetted to
what google thinks I need.


I may keep a few things out of google noses, but very few.


If I may respectfully suggest: Advertising is the least of your
problems. These firms are building up personality and network profiles
on their subscribers. Where that leads is yet to be determined but I
give you an example of how it might pan out.

It's only a matter of time before everything is online and variable
pricing according to likelihood of ongoing revenue becomes a thing.
With the amount of data they have on people, this is probably viable
now. Labour's little free broadband thing almost (ha!) ensured that
everyone was online in some form or another and you only have to walk
up a high street to see just how retail from bricks and mortar is dying.

Don't dismiss that bill until it drops on your doormat, people.
--
Your grandeur passes, and your pageantry,
Your lordships pass, your kingdoms pass; and Time
Disposes wilfully of mortal things.

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Old December 18th 19, 01:00 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

"Chronos" wrote

| It's only a matter of time before everything is online and variable
| pricing according to likelihood of ongoing revenue becomes a thing.

It's my understanding that personalized pricing has already been
happening. Here's an article from 2013, referencing cases as far
back as 2000:

https://lifehacker.com/how-web-sites...ion-an-5973689

These days, of course, it's far more sophisticated. Anyone who's
not making a substantial effort to protect their privacy is being
tracked by the likes of Google and Facebook in nearly everything
they do. And that's *without* having Google or Facebook accounts.
With those people are turning over most details of their lives to
these companies. So a site can price a vacation package based
on how much you want to take that trip, because they can guess.

I don't shop online but I can see the difference in search.
Remember when Google started out, and you could use them
to find all pages that included specific words? Now it's not
only person-specific but the "long tail" of the Internet that
doesn't sell stuff and advertise with Google is nearly invisible.

Not that I use Google for search. But even duckduckgo has
become more commercial.


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Old December 18th 19, 02:13 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:10:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

How many Android users have the ability to o that. I am a competent IT
professional. I think that in order to do what you say would require me
to spend considerable time week planing and executing it.


The dumber your neighbors on Android/iOS, the more YOUR privacy is leaked.

I'm not sure who is the "competent IT professional" since I didn't "see"
this post anywhere except in Carlos' response, but it's certainly not
Carlos who is competent as an IT professional, that's for sure.
[Carlos claimed he can't handle any spec containing greater than 50 words.]

Anyway, to further flesh out the answer the question, assuming it was about
something I said would enhance privacy, I think _all_ Android users (every
single one) can enhance their privacy by removing Google as much as they
can on a non-rooted Android device.

However, once we get to rooting, _then_ I do agree that most people can not
do what might be needed for privacy enhancement.

I may keep a few things out of google noses, but very few.


I think it's quite _rude_ for my neighbors to upload to Google Servers
multiple times a day my identification quad of SSID, BSSID, Signal
Strength, and Universal Coordinates (even as I have _nomap) appended to my
SSID which is set to broadcast, especially as you can't easily spoof that
BSSID that the neighbors constantly upload to Google servers by virtue of
my neighbors not checking the button to NOT send Google my location
information.

In a way, the iOS users are at least not sending Google my privacy quad.

I also think it's quite _rude_ for my friends and family to upload to
Google serves my personal contact information, whether they're on iOS or
Android.

Both those are trivial to prevent; if the mobile phone owner is
intelligent, IMHO.

Which is my main point that it's trivial to improve privacy for intelligent
people, but the problem is that there are 1000 times us, people who are
dumb who simply do what the big marketing organizations TELL them to do.

--
The dumber your neighbors on Android/iOS, the more YOUR privacy is leaked.


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Old December 18th 19, 02:13 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:03:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

You took more than 50 words to explain it. That is *too complex*


Jesus Christ Carlos,
It takes you only seconds to return to posting like a child does.

I patiently explained something only one out of 10,000 people can do
o And you complain about the meaningless 'word count' for Christs' sake.

Only an utter idiot would say what you just said.
o The iOS crybabies like Jolly Roger do it all the time.

If I explain how to use an iPad as a usb stick, even though they can't even
do it themselves, they "count the words" of the description, and base how
"hard" or "easy" it is on a meaningless word count.

You just proved, yet again, you're the exact same type of idiot Carlos.
o Only a person with a child's comprehensive skills would say what you did.

Here's a short 2-word response to you that you _can_ understand, Carlos:
o Grow up.

--
People who count words equating them with complexity - prove to be morons.
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Old December 18th 19, 02:13 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:10:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.


I very much doubt that. Not easy nor trivial. Trivial is seeking a
button on a phone just purchased and push it.


Hi Carlos,

I actually think this type of privacy is trivial...
o ... but only for intelligent people.

What I mean by that is that the dumber someone is, in my humble opinion,
the more likely they are to simply "just do" what the advertisers tell them
to do.

As a simple example, how many people buy iOS devices and, just one month
later, their 5GB of "teaser storage" is filled, and then they complain?
(HINT: Almost every new iOS user does this, in my experience.)

Same with Android only in different ways, in that how many new Android
users simply _default_ to the Google Contacts being backed up to Google
Servers?

Personally, I consider it extremely _rude_ to my contacts to put my
contacts on the net; but the dumbest of people do that, don't they?

Another thing the dumbest of people do is upload constantly to Google
Servers their neighbors' quad persopnal information of SSID/BSSID/GPS/Db.

Yet, my point is that it's _trivial_ not to feed Google all this private
information about yourself and your neighbors; you just have to be
intelligent enough to press the button.

I realize I'm likely one out of 1,000 but I would hope most of you are also
1 out of 1,000 in terms of intelligence and basic understanding of privacy.

--
I'll respond to the rest separately as it seems posters were intermingled.
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Old December 18th 19, 07:27 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 15:13:38 -0000 (UTC)
Arlen Holder wrote:

I think it's quite _rude_ for my neighbors to upload to Google Servers
multiple times a day my identification quad of SSID, BSSID, Signal
Strength, and Universal Coordinates (even as I have _nomap) appended
to my SSID which is set to broadcast, especially as you can't easily
spoof that BSSID that the neighbors constantly upload to Google
servers by virtue of my neighbors not checking the button to NOT send
Google my location information


Add _nomap to your SSID. Apparently, this is a global opt-out, although
quite how rigid they are in following this is anyone's guess and the
fact one has to ask that question is a case in point about how
trustworthy they are.

At least _nomap signals your intent and you have clearly told them to,
for want of a better phrase, sod off.
--
Your grandeur passes, and your pageantry,
Your lordships pass, your kingdoms pass; and Time
Disposes wilfully of mortal things.

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Old December 18th 19, 09:33 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:27:55 +0000, Chronos wrote:

Add _nomap to your SSID. Apparently, this is a global opt-out, although
quite how rigid they are in following this is anyone's guess and the
fact one has to ask that question is a case in point about how
trustworthy they are.

At least _nomap signals y


It's not that simple to prevent others from being rude with Android.

First off, you didn't note that I _do_ add "nomap" (and "optout"):
<https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3g3xyu/for_wifi_ms_optout_and_google_nomap_does_anyone/
o nomap
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/Google-Maps-Wi-Fi-Location-SSID,14000.html
o optout
<https://www.redmondpie.com/disable-wi-fi-sense-password-sharing-in-windows-10-heres-how/

Secondly, the "nomap" suffix _still_ doesn't prevent Google from
_obtaining_ your private SSID quad from your rude neighbors; the nomap is
just is a signal for Google to strip out your private information from
their public database (which is available to everyone online to track
anyone).

Secondly, people have to _know_ what they're doing is very rude.
o It doesn't take intelligence; it's takes caring about people's privacy.

And they have to _not_ ever use Google Contacts or the GMail app.
o Both of those apps put _your_ contact information on the net!

The fact is that, because other people are rude, you lose your privacy:
o How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/D_S7hLbW4j0/Mg2gcqYrDwAJ

At least _nomap signals your intent and you have clearly told them to,

for want of a better phrase, sod off.

The problem is that rude uncaring people like Carlos exist everywhe
o What else do we need to do in order to turn OFF reporting to Google my neighbor's wifi access points?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/GHyPnNU60gg/0RTA5x4rAgAJ

There are very few intelligent people, and even less non-rude people.
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Old December 18th 19, 10:20 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On 18/12/2019 16.13, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:03:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

You took more than 50 words to explain it. That is *too complex*


Jesus Christ Carlos,
It takes you only seconds to return to posting like a child does.

I patiently explained something only one out of 10,000 people can do
o And you complain about the meaningless 'word count' for Christs' sake.

Only an utter idiot would say what you just said.
o The iOS crybabies like Jolly Roger do it all the time.

If I explain how to use an iPad as a usb stick, even though they can't even
do it themselves, they "count the words" of the description, and base how
"hard" or "easy" it is on a meaningless word count.

You just proved, yet again, you're the exact same type of idiot Carlos.
o Only a person with a child's comprehensive skills would say what you did.

Here's a short 2-word response to you that you _can_ understand, Carlos:
o Grow up.


Plonk.

--
Cheers, Carlos.


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