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Old December 14th 19, 09:03 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?

This thread is an offshoot of this recent discussion:
o What Data Do They Find On Android If One Doesn't Do Texting?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/2Z5aW22MpZo/BL5UiJh3AQAJ

I love facts; so I would love someone to prove me wrong ... with facts.

I posit that there's _nothing_ (that I can think of) that you _need_ to do
on Android that you can't already do WITHOUT setting up a Google Account in
the Android OS itself.

Note that I'm not saying that a "Google Account" isn't useful (e.g., it
provides for a spam-free email for example); but that you can still get
that functionality WITHOUT explicitly putting your Google Account into the
OS itself (which then adds undesirable things such as the Advertiser ID).

In summary, without pointing the Android OS to a "Google Account"...
a. You can still get Google Mail (e.g., using any MUA other than GMail)
b. You can still use Google Maps (you just can no longer save offline maps)
c. You can still scrape Google Play (e.g., Aurora downloads APKs just fine)
etc.

I love facts - where I don't know of ANY reason you _need_ to set the
Android phone up with a Google Account in the Android OS.

Do you?

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Old December 15th 19, 10:23 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:03:58 -0000 (UTC)
Arlen Holder wrote:

Note that I'm not saying that a "Google Account" isn't useful (e.g.,
it provides for a spam-free email for example); but that you can
still get that functionality WITHOUT explicitly putting your Google
Account into the OS itself (which then adds undesirable things such
as the Advertiser ID).


To be honest, I'd not relax even then. Android and, by extension, GSF
also has access to the device's unique ID and IMEI. Your faith in
humanity would have to be sufficiently pristine to believe Alphabet
wouldn't "leverage" (I hate that word) this to track users, even those
who haven't surrendered their unique personal details to be linked with
these other identifiers.

Personally, I never let GSF onto the device in the first place (after
a fastboot -w and a bootloader unlock). Whether that neuters Alphabet's
panopticon completely or not is yet another debate. I suspect that it
doesn't, given even the aGPS uses a Google server for SUPL. Then you
have the browser validating each and every URL with safebrowsing, yet
another Alphabet service. All of these can be mitigated but it's not
for the casual user.

I still find it amusing when others criticise my refusenikism before
the full implications of user tracking and Big Data have been realised.
--
Your grandeur passes, and your pageantry,
Your lordships pass, your kingdoms pass; and Time
Disposes wilfully of mortal things.

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Old December 15th 19, 01:24 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?



"Arlen Holder" wrote in message
...
Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?


because they decide that you have to

it won't update if you don't

Of course, you could live without updates

tim



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Old December 16th 19, 12:48 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:24:21 -0000, tim... wrote:

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?


because they decide that you have to

it won't update if you don't

Of course, you could live without updates


All I care about are the facts.

I asked the question because I feel there isn't (yet) any functionality I
need to do that I can't do WITHOUT pointing the OS to a Google Account.

(A) For "updates", the Android OS seems to update just fine without
pointing the OS to a Google Account.

(B) Also, for "APK updates", both Google Play (via Aurora) and F-Droid apps
seem to update just fine without pointing the OS to a Google Account.

Given those two facts, what "updates" are you implying might not happen if
we don't point the Android OS to a Google Account?
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Old December 16th 19, 02:05 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?



"Arlen Holder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:24:21 -0000, tim... wrote:

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without
it?


because they decide that you have to

it won't update if you don't

Of course, you could live without updates


All I care about are the facts.

I asked the question because I feel there isn't (yet) any functionality I
need to do that I can't do WITHOUT pointing the OS to a Google Account.

(A) For "updates", the Android OS seems to update just fine without
pointing the OS to a Google Account.


lucky you,

mine didn't

or rather it didn't tell me that there were any updates

I don't know if I could have manually looked for them

tim





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Old December 17th 19, 05:57 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:05:11 -0000, tim... wrote:

lucky you,

mine didn't

or rather it didn't tell me that there were any updates

I don't know if I could have manually looked for them


Hi tim,

I'm all about facts.
o I asked the question to garner the facts.

Hence I appreciate that you explained what happens on your system.

I'm no expert at this "update" stuff simply 'cuz I generally don't update
all that much because I've seen too many programs start out well (like ES
File Explorer, for example), and then go rogue on us.

Same thing happens on the PC (e.g., CCleaner, Super, etc.) where, if
there's no reason to update, I don't update.

Nonetheless, I can update Android anytime I want, even though I don't have
the Android OS set to a Google Account.

Given that the vast majority of my apps are from F-Droid, you'll note that
the F-Droid app has a button has these buttons on the bottom of the GUI:
(latest, categories, Nearby, Updates, & Settings).

When I press "Updates", that F-Droid app says:
"Congratulations, your apps are up to date"
And F-Droid doesn't use 'no stinkin' Google Account set up in the OS.

Likewise with "Aurora Store", which has three buttons on the bottom, namely
"Home", "Apps", & "Search", where pressing "Apps" shows two columns, namely
"Updates" and "Installed", where mine says "34 updates available", and has
a button saying "update all", and again, I don't have no stinkin' Google
Account set up in the OS.

One thing I don't seem to get, nor do I ever want, are "badges" telling me
on the homescreen that updates are available (I hate that iOS nags me that
way), as if I wanted to update, I would update - but I generally don't want
to update.

Likewise with the Android OS update, where I just pressed
Settings System Advanced System Updates Checking for update...
"Your device is up-to-date, Android version: 9, Security patch level..."

I realize a lot of people are scared to not do what Google tells them to
do, where I believe there is an upside to NOT pointing the OS to the Google
Account (whether or not you have a Google Account).

The _only_ apps that won't work are some of the Google Apps, where every
one of them (AFAIK) has a perfectly good workaround, save, perhaps, for
Google Voice (but certainly there must be a VOIP that is as good as GV).

For Google Play, the Aurora Store is the same thing, only better.
For YouTube, F-Pipe is worlds better (there's no comparison).
For GMail, there are plenty of available MUAs.
Google Maps doesn't need you to log in but you could if you wanted to.
There are plenty of non-Google calendars, contact managers, SMS apps, etc.

Given that evidence, I'd say that updates of apps & the OS do NOT need you
to set the OS to a Google Account.

In short, the only thing we can find that _needs_ the OS set to a Google
Account seems to be Google Voice (thanks to Mike Easter's suggestion),
which, incidentally, actually _sets_ the OS to the Google Account that you
log into Google Voice with.

So the two apps to avoid are "Google Voice" and "Gmail" (which
automatically syncs contacts, apparently, whether you want it to or not).

I love facts, so I hope others keep pitching in as the whole goal is to
divorce from Google without losing any major functionality.
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Old December 17th 19, 01:44 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On 14/12/2019 23.03, Arlen Holder wrote:
Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?


Nice google tools.

Easier life.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
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Old December 17th 19, 04:25 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:40:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The "functionality" of backing up apps, data, contacts, calendar, files,
photos, videos, etc., is easily done WITHOUT a Google Account set up on the
phone (I back everything up to the sdcard for example).


NOT easily.


Hi Carlos,

Local backup is trivial, on all platforms (other than on iOS, IMHO).
o You just need to be intelligent about the backup process & app selection.

Part I: Organize the hierarchy so all data you care about is in "data".
Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).

We go way back so I'll tread carefully with the facts.
1. I back up Windows all the time
2. I back up Linux all the time.
3. I back up my iPads all the time.
4. I back up my Androids all the time.

As you may recall from the Windows newsgroup, there are fundamentally three
kinds of backup, as I see them.
1. Backing up the "Royal mess" (data scattered everywhere)
2. The "Scared ****less" dd bit-for-bit copy essentially of apps & data
3. Backing up a well-organized data hierarchy (a single data directory)

Obviously most people use #1, where they can't even _find_ their data most
of the time; while a lot of the scared-****less people use #2 where they're
so afraid of their apps that they insist on everything being copied,
including the apps.

Me?

I maintain a well-organized hierarchy on all platforms (it's hardest on
iOS, next hardest on Android, almost simplest on Linux, and simplest on
Windows) - which is _trivial_ to back up, since all the work is done by
organizing things.

For example, see:
o What's the best way to MOVE an app to where it belongs, after it has already been installed?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/hqKijRgHOC0/vB3pH-sZAgAJ

Notice it takes intelligence & understanding & most of all, forethought!
o Is there a way to get Google Play to cough up the .apk file?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/-XsfPuMqopY/I6MH_lRaAgAJ

Essentially, any data I care about, goes into the "data" hierarchy; while
any apps I care about have their initial installers saved into the
"software" hierarchy; and, in addition, on the PC, every program is
installed in the "apps" hierarchy, where all menus are maintained in the
"data" hierarchy such that the exact same menu (literally, the exact
folders and shortcuts that worked on Windows XP worked just fine in Windows
7 and on Windows 10 (plenty of tutorials I've written on that topic)).

See, for example:
o Tutorial for setting up a well-organized consistent efficient Windows menu system
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/eWU-jOkFRtU/lkVU8yolBQAJ

So, on Windows & Linux and Android, you simply back up the "data"
hierarchy, and you're done for the data. Then you back up the "software"
hierarchy, and you're done for the apps. The menus come over EXACTLY and
work exactly after the re-install of the operating system (yes, even on
Android, since nova free handles that homescreen menu perfectly).

I accept that there may be nobody else on the planet who knows how to do
what I know how to do; but without hubris, I state that I've written
_plenty_ of tutorials to show people how to back up this easily, so if they
think it can't be done, they simply haven't read (or understood) what those
tutorials showed them how to do.

In short, on Android, I only need to back up two hiearchies:
a. /sdcard0/data0/*
b. /sdcard1/data1/*

Of course, apps have to be chosen intelligently (e.g., they need to be able
to change the DCIM location, or the APK backup location, or the map and
waypoint file locations, or the downloaded files location, or the SMS
communications & particularly the MMS attachments, etc.) which is the
second part of this three part system.

Part I: Organize the hierarchy so data you care about is in "data".
Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).

--
Note you need to be intelligent about your backup process & app selection.
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Old December 17th 19, 04:25 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:44:07 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?


Nice google tools.

Easier life.


Hi Carlos,

I agree with you in that I don't doubt for a moment that for people to
exactly follow the highly marketed cloud providers' suggestion to forever
rent their private data back from the cloud providers themselves, is
"easier" than actually thinking about keeping their personal data local.
o Google adds the ability to automatically store & manage device backups through Google One (via subscription)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/v6S1AFFLr0c/nfKWRfYIBAAJ

Most people, IMHO, simply give up on intelligent backup (on most platforms):
o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.

See this thread for more details on why people do what they often do...
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ
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Old December 17th 19, 10:28 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,uk.telecom.mobile
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Default Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a GoogleAccount?

On 17/12/2019 17:25, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:44:07 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?


Nice google tools.

Easier life.


Hi Carlos,

I agree with you in that I don't doubt for a moment that for people to
exactly follow the highly marketed cloud providers' suggestion to forever
rent their private data back from the cloud providers themselves, is
"easier" than actually thinking about keeping their personal data local.
o Google adds the ability to automatically store & manage device backups through Google One (via subscription)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/v6S1AFFLr0c/nfKWRfYIBAAJ

Most people, IMHO, simply give up on intelligent backup (on most platforms):
o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.

See this thread for more details on why people do what they often do...
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ


How many Android users have the ability to o that. I am a competent IT
professional. I think that in order to do what you say would require me
to spend considerable time week planing and executing it.

Even if I had time there are 100 apps on my phone. Many, e.g. Uber,
Careem, Weigh****chers, Ikea, Central Heating controller App (Draytek
Wiser) don't have any equivalents on F-Droid.

So yes, I could avoid a google account, but in doing so its like tying
one hand behind my back. I really just want to use it.

Of course part of the price I pay is that I get adds targetted to what
google thinks I need.

Even worse still I see folks who haven't set up a cloud account and who
then loose their phones and are aghast that their memories are all gone.

Simply setting up a cloud account, google, onedrive or dropbox would
mean all this was saved....

Dave
G4UGM








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