UK Mobile Phones (uk.telecom.mobile) Mobile telephone equipment and networks.

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Old December 18th 19, 07:30 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default New idea from OfCom

Flop wrote:
On 17/12/2019 15:43, Woody wrote:
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE, Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were
locked but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c
if requested at the time of purchase.

If enacted I wonder what effect it will have on purchase prices? It
baffles me that the price of an unlocked PAYG phone is so much cheaper
that the SIM-free identical phone. Agreed you have to load the new PAYG
with a tenner to buy it, but once you've used that up you can change to
whichever SP you choose.

Or is it that the average user is (sorry) thick and doesn't have a clue
about changing around?


I think that you have answered your question in the first sentence.

"I see today"...

The average user is not thick. He just cannot keep up with the current
status. He probably has more important matters to concern him.


They're also gullible. They believe it when a retailer says "best offer" or
"amazing deal".

I was shopping around for new a mobile phone and not a single offer was
cheaper than buying the phone direct from Apple and keeping my current SIM.
Many were nearly a hundred pounds more expensive. People must fall for this
for the offers to be around.


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Old December 18th 19, 07:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default New idea from OfCom

On 18/12/2019 08:30, Chris wrote:
Flop wrote:
On 17/12/2019 15:43, Woody wrote:
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE, Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were
locked but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c
if requested at the time of purchase.

If enacted I wonder what effect it will have on purchase prices? It
baffles me that the price of an unlocked PAYG phone is so much cheaper
that the SIM-free identical phone. Agreed you have to load the new PAYG
with a tenner to buy it, but once you've used that up you can change to
whichever SP you choose.

Or is it that the average user is (sorry) thick and doesn't have a clue
about changing around?


I think that you have answered your question in the first sentence.

"I see today"...

The average user is not thick. He just cannot keep up with the current
status. He probably has more important matters to concern him.


They're also gullible. They believe it when a retailer says "best offer" or
"amazing deal".

I was shopping around for new a mobile phone and not a single offer was
cheaper than buying the phone direct from Apple and keeping my current SIM.
Many were nearly a hundred pounds more expensive. People must fall for this
for the offers to be around.


But how much time did you spend researching all the options?


--

Flop

Truly the Good Lord gave us computers that we might learn patience
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Old December 18th 19, 08:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 420
Default New idea from OfCom

On 17/12/2019 18:02, tim... wrote:


"Woody" wrote in message
...
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE, Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were
locked but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c
if requested at the time of purchase.


I don't see how this works with contract phones at all

Yes if I sign a deal to pay 50 pounds a month for 24 months for an
iPhone 11 (I checked) and I take out the SIM, put in a cheap PAYG SIM at
the end of month one and stop paying the 50 pounds

What are the original network going to do?


Yes they can sue me, but mobile devices are bought by transient people.
There's no guarantee that they can find me.

And as the phone isn't on their network anymore they can't block it

either.

As part of signing a contract you undergo a level of identity checking,
so they do know pretty much who you are. It doesn't matter whether they
can physically find you or not, they can get a CCJ against you and foul
up your credit record.

As you have received the iPhone 11 and not completed paying for it, that
is also technically theft so they could follow that route as well - they
could bar the phone on that level of evidence though.

There is also european wide (at least I think) sharing of IMEIs, so
unless you ship it to e.g. Nigeria there's not much you can do.

What am I missing?

Quite a bit by the look of it! ;-)

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Old December 18th 19, 09:34 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default New idea from OfCom

On 18/12/2019 08:59, Flop wrote:
On 18/12/2019 08:30, Chris wrote:
Flop wrote:
On 17/12/2019 15:43, Woody wrote:
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE, Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were
locked but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c
if requested at the time of purchase.

If enacted I wonder what effect it will have on purchase prices? It
baffles me that the price of an unlocked PAYG phone is so much cheaper
that the SIM-free identical phone. Agreed you have to load the new PAYG
with a tenner to buy it, but once you've used that up you can change to
whichever SP you choose.

Or is it that the average user is (sorry) thick and doesn't have a clue
about changing around?


I think that you have answered your question in the first sentence.

"I see today"...

The average user is not thick. He just cannot keep up with the current
status. He probably has more important matters to concern him.


They're also gullible. They believe it when a retailer says "best
offer" or
"amazing deal".

I was shopping around for new a mobile phone and not a single offer was
cheaper than buying the phone direct from Apple and keeping my current
SIM.
Many were nearly a hundred pounds more expensive. People must fall for
this
for the offers to be around.


But how much time did you spend researching all the options?


In the end, probably quite a lot as I was being exhaustive. However,
just comparing an operator like O2 vs Apple would only take a couple of
minutes.

For example the 64GB iPhone 11 on a 24 month 1GB contract is:
£30 upfront + 24 months @£50.25 = £1236

If you just bought the phone outright from Apple and got 1GB SIM only
deal (£10pm) from O2:
£729 + 24 months @£10 = £969 <- £267 cheaper for exactly the same
product (except there's no tie-in).

On top of that Apple can provide a 0% APR 24-month loan for those who
don't want to pay the full price upfront.

Mobile phone operators are literally fleecing their customers by
hundreds of pounds.
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Old December 18th 19, 10:29 AM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 123
Default New idea from OfCom

On 17/12/2019 15:50, Woody wrote:
On Tue 17/12/2019 15:43, Woody wrote:
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE, Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were
locked but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c
if requested at the time of purchase.

If enacted I wonder what effect it will have on purchase prices? It
baffles me that the price of an unlocked PAYG phone is so much cheaper
that the SIM-free identical phone. Agreed you have to load the new
PAYG with a tenner to buy it, but once you've used that up you can
change to whichever SP you choose.

Or is it that the average user is (sorry) thick and doesn't have a
clue about changing around?


Pretty much. An amazing number of people seem to stick with a handset
and continue to pay a premium long after they are out of contract.

And it has just occurred to me, what about those phones (iPhones for
one?) that are supplied to the retailer unlocked but lock to the SP when
the first SIM is installed? Hmmmm........


They can be unlocked again by dodgy geezers in back alleys and market
stalls (and also at Apple stores too but for a higher price I expect).

I always thought it odd that Apple locked on the first SIM it saw.
I presume this is a throwback from the peculiar US cell phone market.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown


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Old December 18th 19, 08:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Default New idea from OfCom



"Woody" wrote in message
...
On Tue 17/12/2019 18:02, tim... wrote:


"Woody" wrote in message
...
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE, Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were
locked but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c
if requested at the time of purchase.


I don't see how this works with contract phones at all

Yes if I sign a deal to pay 50 pounds a month for 24 months for an iPhone
11 (I checked) and I take out the SIM, put in a cheap PAYG SIM at the end
of month one and stop paying the 50 pounds

What are the original network going to do?

Yes they can sue me, but mobile devices are bought by transient people.
There's no guarantee that they can find me.

And as the phone isn't on their network anymore they can't block it
either.

What am I missing?

tim





That the phone is system and SIM locked?


the plan is to ban SIM-locking

that's the point

tim



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Old December 18th 19, 08:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 182
Default New idea from OfCom



"Chris" wrote in message
...
Tim+ wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Woody" wrote in message
...
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE,
Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG
phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were locked
but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c if
requested at the time of purchase.


I don't see how this works with contract phones at all

Yes if I sign a deal to pay 50 pounds a month for 24 months for an
iPhone 11
(I checked) and I take out the SIM, put in a cheap PAYG SIM at the end
of
month one and stop paying the 50 pounds

What are the original network going to do?

Yes they can sue me, but mobile devices are bought by transient people.
There's no guarantee that they can find me.

And as the phone isn't on their network anymore they can't block it
either.

What am I missing?


They can block it, just like any stolen phone (using the IME number I
believe which is handset specific, not network related). If you’ve taken
out a contract they will have your bank details and home address too.


Yep. They're chase you for breach of contract.


clearly

but my point was about people who make that hard for them, by closing their
bank account and moving house

tim



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Old December 18th 19, 09:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile
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Posts: 561
Default New idea from OfCom

tim... wrote:


"Chris" wrote in message
...
Tim+ wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Woody" wrote in message
...
I see today that OfCom are intending to make it an offence to supply
mobile phones that are locked to a network. Specifically this means
BT/EE,
Tesco Mobile, and VF.

Strangely however I don't think that is correct unless they mean only
PAYG
phones. In my limited experience of VF years ago their PAYG were locked
but their contract phones were not. EE will unlock a PAYG f.o.c if
requested at the time of purchase.


I don't see how this works with contract phones at all

Yes if I sign a deal to pay 50 pounds a month for 24 months for an
iPhone 11
(I checked) and I take out the SIM, put in a cheap PAYG SIM at the end
of
month one and stop paying the 50 pounds

What are the original network going to do?

Yes they can sue me, but mobile devices are bought by transient people.
There's no guarantee that they can find me.

And as the phone isn't on their network anymore they can't block it
either.

What am I missing?


They can block it, just like any stolen phone (using the IME number I
believe which is handset specific, not network related). If you’ve taken
out a contract they will have your bank details and home address too.


Yep. They're chase you for breach of contract.


clearly

but my point was about people who make that hard for them, by closing their
bank account and moving house


The same they do for all bad creditors: put a default on your credit
history and sell your debt to a collection company. Unless you leave the
country it is very difficult to disappear.



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